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Study: Gulf War Syndrome Is Brain Damage Caused By Nerve Gas, Not Psychological Issues

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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:39 AM
Original message
Study: Gulf War Syndrome Is Brain Damage Caused By Nerve Gas, Not Psychological Issues
Source: Dallas Observer

Gulf War Syndrome Is Brain Damage Caused By Nerve Gas, Not Psychological Issues, UT Southwestern Study Proves

By Brantley Hargrove Thu., Sep. 15 2011

​There's no denying it now: Gulf War Syndrome, characterized by memory loss, lack of concentration, neuropathic pain and depression, is a physiological illness, not a psychological one.

A UT Southwestern study, published in the journal Radiology, used a specialized MRI that specifically measures blood flow in the brain and detected marked abnormalities in the brains of those with Gulf War Syndrome. Not only have those abnormalities persisted for 20 years, but in some cases they've worsened.

The findings mark a significant advancement in our understanding of the syndrome, which was for years written off by the Defense Department and the Department of Veterans Affairs as a form of combat stress rather than an objectively diagnosable injury. Dr. Robert Haley, chief epidemiologist at UT Southwestern, and a cadre of clinicians and researchers, have struggled with the government for some 18 years for research funding and to have the syndrome recognized as a legitimate war injury caused by chronic exposure to minimal amounts of sarin gas.

"This was really one of the first techniques to show an objective picture of whether there's really brain damage or not," Haley tells Unfair Park.

Read more: http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2011/09/gulf...
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yet Another "Cause", if we give them more money.
What of the folks who didn't have Sarin exposure?
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. organophosphate
pesticides are a weaker version of nerve gas. Some troops wore flea collars, pesticides were used profusely in their quarters and stations. They were exposed to a lot of organophosphate pesticides. This must be added to the many other exposures they experienced such as the vaccines which were boosted with squalene - something that increases immune response because the traditional anthrax vaccines take months to be effective.
They were also exposed to many different petroleum products that were also spread around their posts. Some of them had water that was contaminated with oil as well.
Also - more people that we were led to believe were exposed to the sarin through wind-drift.

They have always known that the troops were poisoned but they would/could not isolate a single source. Their experiences confounded the existing research.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Diffuse poisoning
Add to that the amount of depleted uranium scattered around during the second Gulf War, and you have an area that is not fit for human habitation.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
46. yes, I thought DU (depleted uranium) was shown to be responsible for at least some of GWS
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #46
80. Are we talking G(H)WS or GWS?
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. I don't know
what is G(H)WS?
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Well, there's your GW and your GHW... both of them started wars in the Gulf.
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liberalmike27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. Those Who Join Should Know
They'll be best buddies while they are in, used for backdrops of politicians, but once out, when the problems start, they'll deny, deny, and deny some more. Like children once born, they'll forget about you like a derelict relative. Soldiers should know that before they join, or go back. I'd suggest you stay at home, as people refusing to join, or go back is about the only way we'll ever get out of these wars without end.

And by the way, I think they'll keep on denying.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
53. That's the truth
Support the troops is just a bumper sticker for the fighting part - not the caring part.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
74. Yep. The ruling class is just not worth risking your life over. nt
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
44. Thank you. You are absolutely correct about pesticides. My uncle
was in the Chemical Warfare Division in WWII. When he came home he opened a farm supply business that specialized in farm chemicals. He died from it.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. Militaries and wars are POISON.
And INSANITY. And POINTLESS DEATH.

K&R
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
68. People shouldn't forget the oil well fires.
Those fires produced a vast amount of toxic smoke and particulates, and given how long and how hot they were allowed to burn, along with the amount of oil that burned, it produced thermal columns that would have raised the byproducts pretty high into the atmosphere before dropping them, effectively creating a petrochemical fallout which would have contained a variety of toxic substances, ranging from asphaltene to metalloporphyrins.
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IthinkThereforeIAM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
95. Don't forget the diet sodas...

...cases of diet Coke and diet Pepsi sat on pallets in the hot 120 degree desert sun for up to 8 weeks before being offered to servicemen and servicewomen due to water shortages/oil contaminated water. Aspartame turns into formaldehyde at temps over 86 degres.

Journalist Harvey Wasserman Links Toxic Diet Soda to Gulf War Syndrome; Sgt. Geoff Millard Returns to Iraq Unarmed, Unembedded <http://peterbcollins.com/2011/01/13/3229 />
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Somehow, it's hard to see the VA granting presumptive CTSD...
"Combat Toxic Soda Disability." :)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Yeah, those fucking attempts to study brain damaged troops are draining us dry.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. WHAT?!?!
I find your response as offensive as your depiction of Obama.
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Bladian Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
59. ...you find that picture offensive?
I think it's hilarious.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #59
97. hmm...
I can see that...

(On the other hand, I've had my fill of Obama sycophants deriding those of us who criticize Obama's performance as POTUS. I suppose one might be amused at the frequently promulgated meme that Obama is "playing some kind of multi-dimensional chess game" with the Republicans greedy wankers who've usurped our media, our politics, and our global economy; and "it's only a matter of time before he has them right where he wants them"!)
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
92. You must be:
a) new here
b) have an impressive ignore list
c) willing to accept junk science without scrutiny
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #92
98. You must be:
a) wrong
b) irrelevant
c) sanctimonious (and wrong, again)
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. Really? Have you noticed there's no "Afghani War Syndrome?"

Even though the Afghani soldiers have probably been exposed to as severe conditions? Have you also noticed that the troops that occupied Iraq afterward haven't continued the "syndrome" symptoms, even though they were in the most severe part of the conflict? That's a strong indication that this is not a psychological issue, or a scheme to defraud Veterans' benefits.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. The same poster was telling us how healthy Corexit was last year..
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
76. Must be "the T word". nt
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
90. Exactly.
Some folks want to make blanket, binary statements, which are almost always flawed.
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donquijoterocket Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
63. but
the psychological disorder angle gave military authorities room to discharge a lot of these troops with a diagnosis of personality disorder which basically absolved the military of any responsibility for their long-term care.
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,158721,00.html
This study ought to go a long way toward getting a lot of those decisions reviewed and hopefully benefits restored to those that deserve them.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
75. I think you're on the wrong message board. This is for Progressives. You know, people with empathy.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #75
91. Empathy doesn't mean potentially lying in the name of funding pet theories.
Deceit in the name of a just cause is still deceit.
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astral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-17-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
94. depleted uranium
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nerve gas = brain damage?
Whodathunkit?

I hope now our soldiers will be, finally, taken care of.
But I wonder about the innocents still over there.

War is hell. And our man Carter never dropped one bomb. We were that close to having no more war, that close.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Where does it say that nerve gas is to blame?
I didn't see that in the article.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. "caused by chronic exposure to minimal amounts of sarin gas."
seems to be the sentence you are looking for.

tho I would like more info on how/when/why the troops were exposed to sarin gas in the Gulf War. I admit to ignorance of that topic.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. US troops blew up Iraqi ammo dumps that contained large numbers of sarin gas tipped shells
and then breathed it in. There's your exposure.

The irony was that the US and western countries helped Iraq produce the stuff during its war with Iran.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Chickens roosting. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. No. If sarin damaged those who profited from it, or started that war, maybe chickens
would be coming home to roost, but that is not how war typically works. Usually, a bunch of innocent people somewhere between 17 and 35 get killed of shat on for life by flocking vultures.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Agreed.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Bravo.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Maybe, but, even if so, nothing says it was the ONLY source of their exposure.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Not I. There were dozens of neurotoxins. Sarin gas is just the most potent.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. And thats why the bush/cheney criminal crew just knew that Saddam had WMD
They helped with obtaining and making the shit to start with.

Republicons are not our or anyone else's friend
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. They also knew in '95 that Saddam had destroyed most of his stockpiles - the head of the Iraqi
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 09:48 AM by leveymg
weapons program told them, and this came out in Newsweek, 3 weeks before the US invaded in 2003: http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1845


Star Witness on Iraq Said Weapons Were Destroyed
Bombshell revelation from a defector cited by White House and press

2/27/03

On February 24, Newsweek broke what may be the biggest story of the Iraq crisis. In a revelation that "raises questions about whether the WMD stockpiles attributed to Iraq still exist," the magazine's issue dated March 3 reported that the Iraqi weapons chief who defected from the regime in 1995 told U.N. inspectors that Iraq had destroyed its entire stockpile of chemical and biological weapons and banned missiles, as Iraq claims.

Until now, Gen. Hussein Kamel, who was killed shortly after returning to Iraq in 1996, was best known for his role in exposing Iraq's deceptions about how far its pre-Gulf War biological weapons programs had advanced. But Newsweek's John Barry-- who has covered Iraqi weapons inspections for more than a decade-- obtained the transcript of Kamel's 1995 debriefing by officials from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the U.N. inspections team known as UNSCOM.

Inspectors were told "that after the Gulf War, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them," Barry wrote. All that remained were "hidden blueprints, computer disks, microfiches" and production molds. The weapons were destroyed secretly, in order to hide their existence from inspectors, in the hopes of someday resuming production after inspections had finished. The CIA and MI6 were told the same story, Barry reported, and "a military aide who defected with Kamel... backed Kamel's assertions about the destruction of WMD stocks."

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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. As it is now Lies are too easy to tell
Lies got us into this whole mess and nothing is being done about those lies. They're easy to tell because there is no accountability. It sucks.
As a kid growing up we were taught that one of the most important things we could do to better ourselves as we went though life was Honesty. There's no honesty anymore. :cry:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Real honesty is impossible above a certain level in government - it would be dealt with as a violat-
ion of secrecy laws.

All you have to do to commit a crime is to have someone in an intelligence agency classify it. Anyone who reveals the lie is dealt with as a traitor. See how the con game works?
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
54. Exactly! That's what I was thinking too . . .
We sell him the poison gas and then we're outraged! when he uses it on us.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. They were exposed through blowing up Iraqi arsenal and by scud missiles
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yawnmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. this study does not indicate the cause, it only shows real physiological changes...
have occurred.
Reading the abstract, there is no hypothesis or conclusion regarding a cause.
This experiment does open the door for future hypothesis and testing in that direction, though.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
81. A good book
that has that info is "They're Poisoning Us! From the Gulf War to the Gulf of Mexico," by Arnold Mann
Senator Don Reigle did an investigation to find out what they were exposed to.

Another author who examines that subject is Alison Johnson. Her book actually has some very detailed information. She also has videos o the subject, one being: Gulf War Syndrome: Aftermath of a Toxic Battlefield.
Alison Johnson has always shared her books and videos with members of Congress - those who care to learn.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. This study seems to be most significant for identification of a definite physiological injury.
It seems obvious that something biochemical, not psychological, caused a manifest change in the flow of blood to the brain and to brain structures.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Not getting your point. What if no 'physiological" cause were ever found for troops' brain damage?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Then, there would be a less clear path of research and treatment.
Without a known cause, there's no good way to design an effective treatment program. Treatment of symptoms is palliative care, which is also necessary but not nearly as beneficial.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
65. Thanks for the info
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
30. It would be more difficult to attempt to hold the Pentagon and MIC responsible.
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 10:00 AM by Raster
As long as GWS was viewed as purely psychological - it could be rationalized that it was just in their minds, nothing that another pill and counseling could not fix. But ultimately, not the Pentagon's problem. Now that there is a CLEAR physiological link, it can be argued that the Pentagon indeed bears some responsibility for GWS.

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
67. Thanks.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. Well, now,
identifying a physiological cause *could* compel the MIC to fund treatment protocols for our veterans. (Yeah, well, I'm not holding my breath re: that outcome...)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
66. Thanks.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
16. When discussing this topic
you are probably talking about 200,000 soldiers on our side alone, not counting God only knows how many Iraqis. That is truly stunning. I wonder when the definitive report will be in on the effects of depleted uranium.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. OMG!
Many of us tried to expose the horrors of DU during our initial protests of the illegal invasion of Iraq. Few would listen. In fact, most had never heard of DU.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #35
52. For a minute, there, I was wondering what was so horrible about
Democratic Underground. There's a problem with using acronyms.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
45. Fallujah's (sic) birth defects may be a preliminary study.
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w0nderer Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. k&r n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. Great news! Now can we start talking about the soldiers inhalation of depleted uranium? nt
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Give that another 10 years
or 50. Or 100....
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. no doubt.
they are still using it and it will be a very long time, as you stated, before anyone holds anyone accountable for DU.

It still makes the corporations too much money.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. Correction:
It still makes Cheney's minions too much money.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. I stand corrected.
Cheers!
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
39. Veterans already are:
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 10:18 AM by chervilant
From this source linked hereinbelow:


In his article, The Gulf War Was The Most Toxic Battle In Western Military History, Dr. Malcolm Hooper, emeritus professor of medicinal chemistry at the University of Sunderland UK, attributes the symptoms of mysterious Gulf War Illness among American and coalition troops to a combination of toxic substances to which they were subjected.

These included, in addition to weapons of mass destruction, experimental vaccines, anti-nerve gas tablets, aerosolized pesticides, and smoke from hundreds of burning oil wells. Some of the vaccines were not approved by the FDA and had never been used on human subjects. No one had studied the interactive effects of as many as seventeen vaccines administered at the same time. Many soldiers became violently ill immediately after receiving the battery of shots and others developed a variety of symptoms later. Strangely, the normally bureaucratic military kept no records of who received what shots and when.

However, most researchers cite radioactive poisoning from depleted uranium shells as the deadliest element in the Gulf War Illness cocktail. In the 1991 war the Pentagon fired more than 340 tons of DU projectiles at targets in Iraq and Kuwait. More than a half million Gulf era veterans are on medical disability.



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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. With so many possibilities present it almost guarantees that no one
is going to win if they sue. You have to be specific to the causes. MIC covered their own asses.
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. Half a million of our guys on disability from that war? Holy shit.
It's hard to imagine that, especially hard as a deployable soldier and veteran. I shouldn't have had to hear that on DU first. That's a large percentage of everyone involved there.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
70. Actually no.
There's a lot of specious (and totally false) numbers thrown around online for the number of veterans on disability from the Gulf War. The actuality is that about 160,000 have received some form of disability payment, including partial or temporary disability. I don't know how many are on permanent disability.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
69. "anti-nerve gas tablets"
What should probably be mentioned is that most "antidotes" to nerve gas are, in and of themselves, usually at least mildly poisonous. They're just poisonous in the opposite way from nerve gas, making the combination of the two survivable. Usually. For instance Atropine, which is the usual antagonist chemical used for nerve gas exposure, is refined from deadly nightshade. 10 to 20 milligrams of it will incapacitate a human being. Half a gram will kill.

"However, most researchers cite radioactive poisoning from depleted uranium shells as the deadliest element in the Gulf War Illness cocktail."

Not likely. The toxicity of depleted uranium is fairly small, originating from it's status as a heavy metal, akin to lead. In terms of real risk and LD50, you could eat a dozen depleted-uranium fragments, and you wouldn't be at a fraction the risk you would be from even trace exposure to sarin gas.

The LD50--that means lethal dose to 50%, the amount of a chemical that gives a 50% chance of killing the average person--the LD50 for depleted uranium would be about 20 grams, assuming a 220 pound male soldier. In contrast, the LD50 for Sarin is about 100 milligrams.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #69
84. Heavy metal poisoning
Was a candidate. DU is a heavy metal.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
85. I highly doubt it
Inhalation of depleted uranium dust does not cause the symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome.

As someone who was there, I personally blame the PB pills. Ever person I knew who came down with it took his required dosage of the pills.

Me? They gave them to me and didn't enforce doses, so I didn't take them, and I'm fine. Other people's sergeants stood by to watch them take the pills every day.

I was in a tank unit, so I drove right through many of the places depleted uranium was used, right after it was used. Not a problem.

There are certain people who are campaigning against the use of depleted uranium in general, so this is probably just a lame effort to tie it to something in their effort to get it banned.
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. K&R n/t
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Roy Rolling Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. War is not healthy
for any living thing.
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gblady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. so true....
can we just stop the Madness NOW, please!
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
26. read the testimonies of veterans
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. Excellent contribution to the thread. Thank you! nt
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
36. What about
the "natives" of the gulf....the Iraqis? We must never forget, they are also human beings.
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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
40. I'd like to see a better article
What the study established was that the vets they studied suffered from well-defined physical problems (i.e. it's not "just in your head"), but if you look at the abstract (and not the blog post in the OP) it doesn't say anything about causes. Now the researchers may have the hunch that it's sarin exposure, but that's not a result of their study. Is there a source that would link the specific physiological changes they observed to the known effects of sarin?

Otherwise, it could be anything in the toxic stew Gulf War vets were exposed to.

Also, is there any way to assess whether rates of Gulf War Syndrome correlate with estimated sarin exposures? That's another route to proving it was sarin.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters exactly what the cause was except to the extent that it helps get people the help they've been unable to obtain...

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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. ITA.....I do have some research to post but I'm RACING out so I'll have to
do it later. You're absolutely right -- it's a naive/inaccurate representation of the research. I'll post what I have ASAP.


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caraher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. thanks!
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
79. Okay, here we go -- a fair amount of background info
From Gulf War and Health: Volume 1. Depleted Uranium, Pyridostigmine Bromide, Sarin, and Vaccines

Gulf War soldiers were exposed to sarin, cyclosarin and other toxic chemicals at the same time. (And, of course, depleted uranium.)

The drug pyridostigmine bromide (PB) is pharmacologically similar to sarin and other organophosphates, but it is a member of a different chemical class, the carbamates. Both PB and sarin exert their effects by binding to and inactivating the enzyme acetylcholinesterase (AChE). The binding of sarin to AChE is irreversible, whereas the binding of PB is reversible.

Since AChE is responsible for the breakdown of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine (ACh), the inactivation of this enzyme results in a dramatic elevation of ACh levels at cholinergic synapses.

Widespread overstimulation of muscles and nerves induced by excessive levels of acetylcholine is primarily responsible for the acute cholinergic syndrome triggered by exposure to sarin and other organophosphate (OP) nerve agents.


Okay, now, the paragraphs below are from Gulf War Illness and the Health of Gulf War Veterans: Scientific Findings and Recommendations (2008).

A fair amount of the research has looked at the effects of stress/extreme stress coupled with chemical exposures, e.g.:

Neurotoxicologists at Duke University have conducted extensive research evaluating interactive effects of Gulf War-related exposures using protocols designed to parallel levels actually encountered by Gulf War veterans in theater, in the presence and absence of stress. This has included studies of the combined effects of low-level exposures to PB, permethrin, and DEET togetherboth with and without concurrent exposure to a moderate level of restraint stress. Results indicated that combined exposure to PB, DEET, and permethrin, in combination with stress, produced disruption of the blood brain barrier and neuronal cell death in four specific brain regionsthe cingulate cortex, the dentate gyrus, the thalamus, and the hypothalamus.6 The combination of chemicals plus stress also produced reduced AChE activity in the forebrain. These effects were not observed with either stress or low-dose chemicals alone. A second report indicated that, in areas of the brain where there was no apparent disruption of the blood brain barrier, AChE activity was decreased in the midbrain, brainstem, and cerebellum. Significant neuronal cell death and evidence of glial cell activation were also observed in the cerebral cortex and hippocampus. Again, these changes were observed only following combined exposure to stress and low-level exposure to the three chemicals, and not as a result of stress or chemicals alone.

<snip>

Taken together, human and animal studies indicate that extreme and/or sustained stressful experiences can precipitate short term somatic health problems as well as sustained psychiatric illness. There is no evidence indicating whether more moderate stressors, of limited duration, is associated with the development of the types of symptom complexes associated with Gulf War illness, particularly symptoms that persist for an extended period17 yearsafter cessation of the stressful experience. Questions also remain concerning the potential for stressors in theater to have altered or amplified the biological effects of some chemical exposures encountered in the Gulf War. Early suggestions that stress allows PB to enter the brain through a general disruption of the blood brain barrier have not been supported, but more recent studies have suggested that stress may exacerbate effects of PB in more delineated ways, for example, enhancing its effects on autonomic regulation. Animal studies have also demonstrated biological effects resulting from stress in conjunction with combined chemical exposureseffects that exceed those of chemicals or stress alone. Human studies that have evaluated effects of stress in relation to low-level exposure to PB, permethrin, and DEET for short periods have found no significant effects on cognitive or physical performance.


From a summary on research:

Studies indicate that the large majority of Gulf War veterans with chronic multisymptom illness do not have psychiatric disorders. It is therefore important that healthcare, research, and policy decisions concerning ill Gulf War veterans not be based on unsupported assumptions that Gulf War illness is primarily a psychiatric condition or that it was caused by psychological stressors during deployment. However, some veterans with Gulf War illness are also affected by psychiatric disorders, and it is important that those veterans are properly diagnosed and treated for those conditions.


There's way more at the report link. I'm exhausted, dizzy and not at all sure I provided the most pertinent or informative paragraphs. But the research is out there!


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Fokker Trip Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
41. Soldiers have been front line guinea pigs for a long time.
They seem to be viewed as government property and a handy group of folks to experiment on or just not give a crap about health-wise. Kissenger's (sp?) remark about soldiers being dumb animals comes to mind.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
43. Okay - did we use serin gas? Why would we hide this all those years?
Kids should be warned that when they enlist they are not going to get covered for every war related injury. At least not for 20+ years: agent orange & now this. Is this one of those "winning hearts and minds" things.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Sigh....
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
50. Seeing how an old friend of my husband's died of GWS,
I'm not surprised to learn it's physical.

Yep, died in his sleep after many years of complaining about stuff the VA denied was real. Young, too-- 40ish.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
58. Another way Rs BORROWED the money and where Ds get the bill.
Probably cost a few lives as well as more than a few bankruptcies which were all the better for the bankers eventual takeover of our properties.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
64. Odd, I thought the brain was a physical thing with the mind being physical information...
and that would mean it is always physical, even if it's "psychological". But hey, whatev.
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
71. I am NOT surprised....
and I am glad they're finding this documentation. The Repug's penchant for war is absolute proof of their anti-Americanism. They don't care for anyone except themselves. Just how selfish can you get??
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
72. So DU bombs not to blame and Pentagon off the hook?
I would not venture to rule it out so soon.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. Rule nothing out
It was momentous in itself that Haley was even "allowed" to investigate causes other than psychological disorders - pre-existing.

Haley's work a few years ago identified three different syndromes arising from different exposures and/or causes.

He has done a tremendous amount of work that when it is all put together will likely account for many different sources.
There is much more work to go.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
73. And kids are STILL enlisting. Sheesh. To get brain damage for the assholes running this country and
the rulers they serve? Why the hell bother?
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
77. "They" will " de-bunk" this quickly and publicly.
The MIC will NEVER admit to causing our (mainly) young people these life destroying injuries. You must be un-patriotic for even suggesting this. :sarcasm:

Honestly, my Father WAS (Died at 53 from heart failure) a soldier in Viet Nam. He spent most of his time near the front lines because as a helicopter pilot, he had to fly his missions there. He told me stories of the constant spraying of

defoliant, near his "hootch" and being totally soaked by this stuff (Agent Orange) on most days. During "down time" he was even responsible for aerial sprayings. he said it was incredible how fast it worked.

One day they would be in a lush, green jungle and the next, a barren "alien landscape" with absolutely no greenery in which the snipers to hide. (Oh God, these memories just overpowered me, he died in my arms.)

I will never forget going with my Mom to pick him up from the Airport in Nashville,TN, when he came home. He was so pathetic. Thirty-three years old (an "old man" during war-time), he weighed maybe 120 lbs. (when he left he was closer to

200 pounds), he had the "thousand yard stare", dark, dark circles under his eyes and open ulcers all over his body. At the time they called it "jungle rot" and were told that the sores were from living in the humid jungle

because their bodies were not prepared for that. He left home as solid as a rock. he had been a Drill Sergeant for 12 years. Then he went to flight school and OCS for the year or so before 'Nam. Man, he was solid.

It took months before most of the (we learned later) "chlor-acne" from the agent orange to subside into his tissues. They were permanent scars, pitted skin, lesions abruptly appearing, pus-filled, leaking and then

subsiding. All of this on his body that was expanding slowly and displaying the bullet wounds. One in his chin, strafed down his arm, another in his chest. Saved by the "chicken-plate" that pilots wore over their hearts.

They sat on their helmets because their "birds" were not armored, in fact, more often than not, after a battle or setting down in a "hot LZ," having the men and bodies thrown on while under fire, all they could hope was that

the "hundred mile an hour tape" would hold til they were back at base. It usually did, even repairing hydraulic lines to get them out of hell and back to the relative safety of their hooch. After many years, the MIC and

Monsanto (yep) finally admitted to poisoning our bravest. By then, his heart was 50% gone and his glory days behind him. He never stopped though. he earned 2 masters, this eighth grade drop-out who left the farm at 15

and lied his way into the Army. So much more..., Hey he finally was told that he was "exposed to agent orange" in 'Nam, "They gave him" three $500 payments. He lived to collect two of them. After he died at 53

the V.A. rep. told my Mom that she could not collect that last $500 payment. He did not know my Mom too well...

Hell, it had only taken about twenty years before monsanto and the MIC fessed up to that much. I was a Nixon worshipper until my Dad came home to me. Between us, we became pretty pretty jaded when we were told to believe and obey.

It has been a long time since I have missed him this bad. Good luck Desert Storm Vets. Just wait until they finally tell the truth about depleted uranium.



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Duval Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
78. K&R n/t
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
83. I guess this way the Army doesnt have to mention the Larium,etc they gave
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
86. Two of our favorite people, Don Imus and Lou Dobbs were
screaming about this in the early 2000's, and started a facility to help these guys. More than our Government did.
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cpamomfromtexas Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
89. I posted this in a fluoroquinolone help group, most believe that was it
They give the soldiers fluoroquinolones (a class of antibiotics, there are about 20 still on the market and go by many names, see links below to find out if you have been exposed) before deployment, they are supposedly given to help "protect" them. There are many parallels between the victims of fluoroquinolone toxicity and the gulf war syndrome although the victims are in an uphill battle to find any medical people that are brave enough to go up against big pharma. Treatment is virtually non-existent and most of us are told "its all in your head".

If you wish to find out more, saferpills.org and fqresearch.org are good places to go.

I now know fluoroquinolones are very dangerous but one of them is one of the biggest sellers in the US. That one is levaquin, cipro is another (that one was used after the anthrax attacks) Several billion dollars a year in sales.

Thousands of people have had serious adverse reactions, I happened to be one of them. I supposed millions of other people have had too, but because the reactions are frequently delayed, few people make the connection.

In my case, the first thing I noticed (how could I not) was a detached tendon and torn hamstring.

Other symptoms were: panic, severe depression, borderline psychotic episodes, hormone imbalance, eye problems, nervous system disorders, serious brain fog & problems concentrating, serious memory problems, serious muscle fatigue, sensation that I can only describe as feeling like I was on the edge of a building, not wanting to jump, but not sure I wouldn't.

I've been researching my issue for several months, I was absolutely floored that there are thousands of people with these problems too.

The problem is we can't get acknowledgement of our issues from medical personnel, does anyone know if we have to wait for science to catch up before we can get legal help and what happens to our statute of limitations if we have to wait for this for any lawyers to be interested in handling this. Right now, the lawyers are only interested in the tendon issues, and then only if you tore one within 60 days of taking the drug. Mine tore approx 5 months after levaquin and 4 months after taking cipro.

Would appreciate any information you can provide, I will post it for about 1000 other people to view.
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lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. See post #83 Lariam it is an anti malaria- Mefloquine Fq research is good and was
started after a years and years worth of a FQ victims stories and information about the drug on a Yahoo group site mysteriously disappeared one day from this planet.....................

fqresearch.org etc. and am very sorry to hear you took Levaquin.

I often thought about the Gulf War victims during my worse FQ days and how if this was happening to me and I was in the comfort of my home how these side effects must feel while at war , or even just in the intensive or stressful military life.
Let alone all the injuries like tendon damage since the army folk would be much more prone to injury than I would be and I was so bad off as it was, what damage to their bodies too.

it is not thousands, but millions from Levaquin and who knows how many in our armed services have had, or r continue to have this syndrome by another name, be it Gulf or Lariam. SAD


on a side noteIf you tore a tendon search online for Levaquin lawyers as I believe they are taking cases now on recent tears 2years back maybe
I know some awards given not sure what US states

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