Gunman Cites Glenn Beck as Inspiration for Plot Against ACLU & Tides

[sabra]

Source: democracy now

In a jailhouse confession, a California man has admitted it was Fox News host Glenn Beck who inspired him to plot the assassination of employees of the ACLU and the Tides Foundation. Byron Williams made national headlines in July, when he was arrested after he opened fire on California Highway Patrol officers. The shootout occurred as Williams was driving to the headquarters of the Tides Foundation headquarters in San Francisco. Earlier today, the media watchdog group MediaMatters released audio from a jailhouse interview in which Williams talks about Beck’s influence.

Byron Williams: "I would have never started watching Fox News if it wasn’t for the fact that Beck was on there. And it was the things that he did, it was the things he exposed, that blew my mind. I said, 'Well, nobody does this.' ...Beck will never say anything about a conspiracy, will never
advocate violence. He’ll never do anything of this nature. But he’ll give you every ounce of evidence that you could possibly need. Go look at all the stuff that you’ll find. I would suggest you go back and see, try to find the videos about –– all the June videos."

That was Byron Williams being interviewed by freelance journalist John Hamilton. According to MediaMatters, in the eighteen months before the shooting, Beck used his Fox News show to attack the Tides Foundation twenty-nine times, claiming that the small foundation is part of a secret George Soros-funded plot to infiltrate and gain control of big businesses and to indoctrinate the youth of America. Even after the shooting Beck continued to threaten Tides.

Glenn Beck: "I’m just going to throw this message out for the people at the Tides Foundation: I’m coming for you. Oh, I’m coming for you. Well, no, not in a—not—Glenn Beck making threats? No, mm-mm. Nope, I’m just going to reverse all the things that you have done, all the things that you have done. The tide is about to change."



Read more: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/11/headlines/gunman_cites_glenn_beck_as_inspiration_for_plot_against_aclu_tides

[arbusto_baboso]

1. I wonder how much attention the MSM will give this?

I'm wagering little or none.

[oberliner]

11. Hopefully none

Beck is a conspiratorial loon, but he's just not responsible for a guy like Williams.

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/10/paging-glenn-beck

`

[Thornleylv]

21. hardly

thats like saying manson was not responsable

[oberliner]

37. No - it's like saying The Beatles were not responsible for what Manson did

Which they were not - despite Manson claiming to be influenced by them.

[crazyjoe]

39. great response.

[oberliner]

53. Thanks

Nice balance in replies to my comment!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stevepol]

54. So the Beatles were inciting Chas Manson to kill actresses?

Strange logic it seems to me. Maybe I'm missing something.

[oberliner]

56. People who kill (or attempt to kill) are responsible for their own actions

Listening to Glenn Beck rail about wild conspiracies or hearing The Beatles give secret messages in their songs when played backwards or believing that the Discovery Channel promotes overpopulation does not remove that responsibility.

[Politicalboi]

71. But Beckkk's message isn't secret

I remember as a kid playing Beatles records backwards "Turn me on dead man" But Beckkk goes way beyond that. Manson listening to the same record you do but he gets a different message than you. But both of you listen to Beckkk and come to the same conclusion. Someone MUST take care of Glenn's enemies. Right there in plain english. Yes we all must take blame for our own actions, but Beckkk gave him a reason. And that reason can be found throughout American homes unlike a hippie cult being told what they are hearing by Jesus Christ on acid. Beckkk gives Americans more reason's to hate Obama and liberal organizations everyday to a hungry crowd. And some have already taken the bait.

[oberliner]

73. That is true

However, hearing in Glenn Beck's rantings a message that you should go kill people is similar to hearing on a Beatles record that there is a race war coming.

Virtually every single person who listens to Glenn Beck does not go out and try to kill people.

[Politicalboi]

81. But most people didn't get Charlie's message

But shall I say "millions" (Give or take) get Glenn's message. But they don't go out and kill. But he makes them think or fantasize about it. How many of his viewers would you think would love to strangle Nancy Pelosi. Maybe even live on his show. I bet he would get quite a few takers. And out of those few there would be some that would do it at his beckon call so to speak. This is more widespread than the Beatles and Manson. Back then if you even were joking and said you agreed with Charlie you were scorned and mocked. Today probably not so much. Beckkk is the Manson of the 21st Century, only he has a TV show Charlie doesn't yet. Maybe Fox will sign him. LOL! Anything goes these days. But yes again I believe everyone is responsible for their actions. But if someone is telling you they're coming for you, it just might set some off.

[oberliner]

84. Well the Manson comparison is by no means an ideal one

How about looking around this site or others like it?

There are a lot of very angry posts directed at people on the right. Some express genuine concerns that those people are leading our country in a fascist direction.

Couldn't an unstable person be just as likely to react to something like that?

[Enthusiast]

139. Beck's allegations

are complete fabrications. Concerns that the nation's right wing is leading the country in a fascist direction is verifiable and right before our eyes. Besides, Beck has a TV program that reaches millions of already gullible viewers.

Why are you defending Beck?

[Rex]

167. Ah but a lefty did not commit an act of violence because a hatemonger

told them to. It was a Rwinger and always (isn't that curious) is. Why you ask, because they are unintelligent knuckle draggers that like violence and domestic abuse. I see you've never hung around Rwing idiots much.

The argument isn't about the 1st Amendment, it is about if Glenn Beck has the RIGHT to use hate speak to advance his political agenda at the cost of another humans life. If you cannot see that, then you are blind to the argument.

[Crunchy Frog]

130. And Georges Henri Yvon Joseph Ruggiu is just an innocent

who is being unjustly persecuted.

[JDPriestly]

55. Glenn Beck is overly-emotional and irrational, in one word: crazy.

Beck's overly-emotional, irrational rants resonate with people who are like him, crazy. Beck may not be able to help himself. I'm not sure about that.

But Fox News is not irrational -- not like Beck anyway. Rupert Murdoch knows exactly how Beck resonates and encourages crazy, irrational, overly emotional people out in La-La Land to become, if they are so inclined, violent. Murdoch and his Fox News will go too far one of these days. You cannot give someone like Beck a huge loudspeaker and just let them go without somebody else eventually being harmed. Murdoch is irresponsible. He will do anything for ratings, for the money that high ratings produce.

[oberliner]

58. I think he is playing a character for ratings/money

I think that is what he has always done. He has hit upon a winner and is milking it for all it is worth.

[w4rma]

135. No. He's a con-artist who is raking in millions for his con. (nt)

[AlbertCat]

107. it's like saying The Beatles were not responsible for what Manson did

Uh... the song Helter Skelter does not say anything bad about Sharron Tate... or even anything bad about the phrase "helter skelter'. Manson had to INTERPRET a song about a carnival ride and a bad dancer into his acts.

Beck condemns and strongly implies a threat his targets are to the very life we live. No loopy interpretation is needed to go from point a) "They're dangerous and coming to get you!" to point b) "I better act! Do something to protect myself and way of life."


So it is nothing like saying The Beatles were not responsible for what Manson did.

You are completely wrong.

Beck is culpable in a very real sense.... unlike the Beatles.

[oberliner]

113. Does Beck say to go shoot people at The Tides Foundation?

No - but an unstable person interpreted his comments about that group to mean that he should do that. Beck has, in fact, explicitly said that he does not want anyone to be violent (although he has implicitly suggested the opposite). In any case, it is clearly one deranged person's interpretation that anything Beck was saying meant that one should go on a killing spree in the Tides Foundation office. Every single other person who heard the same exact message on the same show did not take it upon themselves to try to kill people.

[Dogtown]

141. Apologies for Beck's incitement

are unlikely to find much support here.

Give it a good try, though. It will help identify the posters that do not belong here.

[oberliner]

153. Help identify the posters that do not belong here?

Wow - can you make a list of all the issues and what the position is supposed to be for someone who belongs here vs. someone who doesn't?

Lets start with gun rights, vegetarianism, 9/11, Venezuela, the fireman who let the house burn down...

Free speech is a liberal value - the ACLU is a liberal organization - Mother Jones is a liberal publication.

There is no apology being made for Beck's incitement. He is a loathsome individual, who, like the KKK have a right to spout out garbage if they so choose.

The criminal himself listed a whole host of people who influenced him - including 9/11 truthers and various other individuals.

Anyone who goes and tries to shoot another person is responsible for those actions.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

109. Beck incites hatred

[oberliner]

114. That much is true

The Beatles analogy is limited in scope. It is being employed to indicate that the responsibility for murder or attempted murder should be placed on the shooter not on what may have inspired him. Virtually everyone who listens to Glenn Beck does not kill people - same for virtually everyone who listens to The White Album.

A related analogy - Mark David Chapman drew inspiration from Catcher in the Rye. That book clearly does rail about phonies. Perhaps that led the killer to want to shoot a phony.

[Crunchy Frog]

128. Yes, because the Beatles regularly engaged in hate speech

and spun wild conspiracy theories targeting particular individuals and organizations for the gullible masses. Just like the innocent Glenn Beck does.

[oberliner]

138. I disagree

I don't think they did anything like that. They just sang songs and a crazy person like Manson thought they were sending him some kind of message instructing him to kill people.

Beck promotes wild conspiracy theories about a variety of different people and organizations and an unstable person like the shooter in this case thought he was being instructed to kill people.

[TheEuclideanOne]

50. How do you possibly come to that conclusion.

You should watch his show and listen to his radio program. It may change your mind. You even have the guy practically saying that he was following Glenn Becks inspiration.

[oberliner]

52. I didn't come to that conclusion

I was quoting Kevin Drum in the Mother Jones article that I linked to.

He clearly has listened to Glenn Beck and still reached that conclusion.

[RamboLiberal]

62. And the reporter for Media Matters plus people at Media Matters

have probably listened to a helluva lot more of Beck and came to a very different conclusion.

Plus other writers/journalists like Dana Milbank, Will Bunch, Alexander Zaitchik, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann, etc.

While they are not saying that Beck is openly encouraging violence, nonetheless his untruthful conspiracies gives validation. Sure there have been whacko killers in the past who have used innocuous sources to validate their murder like the Beatles Helter Skelter or Jody Foster in Taxi Driver, but the difference is that these were totally innocent pieces of media twisted in the minds of the killers.

I don't remember the Beatles or Jody Foster having to continually admonish their listeners/viewers not to commit violence like Beck has done several times. Beck seems to be aware the lies he is spewing can enflame.

Beck continually talks about violence, revolution and end times coming. Plus saying he is a target to be killed by the Obama administration.

I thought the head of the Tides Center said it best of Beck.

"I wish Glenn Beck would grow up and learn that he has real responsibilities," Pike says. "He has a very magnified voice in the media landscape of the U.S., and Fox -- the network that carries his show -- bears responsibility as well."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201010110002

[oberliner]

72. Everyone is entitled to their opinion

I think it is a dangerous road to go down, personally.

Unstable people can be set off by anything.

Non-unstable people are able to listen to the rantings of Glenn Beck and not try to kill people as a result.

I would hope that people on the left would not want to have the ability to enflame passions in any way restricted as a result of the actions of unstable people.

[RamboLiberal]

People on the left who have gone off in the manner of Beck

Get kicked off the air or have a hard time getting air time.

Also while they may enflame passions I rarely hear anyone on the left do it with outright lies and made up conspiracies like Beck and his ilk. Usually their rants are very much grounded in the truths.

And those on the left want the likes of Bush, Cheney brought to justice by trial or the ballot box.

Funny how media executives will come down on progressive commentators for calling a Republican governor a fat slob while a Beck can get away with acusing the President of the United States of a "deep-seated hatred of white people" and not even get a slap on the wrist nor be force to apologize.

It's amazing to me the amount of racism that is allowed to be spewed on the air without penalty.

[oberliner]

78. I do think you make very valid points

Beck and his friends say many ridiculous and scary things and they do whip their followers in a frenzy. It is truly frightening the BS they are able to get their minions to believe.

That said, I don't think it's wise to go down the road of penalizing people for saying things one strongly disagrees with.

I've always thought the answer to speech you dispute is more speech. Let the people know how wrong-headed these folks are. Show them for the fools we know them to be.

[Enthusiast]

140. You say:

"I've always thought the answer to speech you dispute is more speech."

This doesn't work. The networks are working on behalf of corporate interests. They simply do not allow a contrary point of view to be expressed outside narrow confines.

Funny that you chose not to recognize this and continue to defend Glenn Beck's right to make outrageous "Fire!" proclamations. He is telling his viewers that President Obama is directly involved in treasonous alliances. A good American (gullible) could conceivably see it as their duty to assassinate President Obama after listening to Beck. It is a matter of degrees and Beck is way fucking over the line.

[oberliner]

154. Has Michael Moore not suggested that Bush's actions were criminal and that he must be stopped?

I would think that a good gullible American could have conceivably seen it as their duty to assassinate the former president based on some of Moore's comments while Bush was president.

Of course they would have to have been seriously mentally unstable to begin with to do so.

I do not think we can put limits on free speech because I feel that will come back to bite us when it is time for us to criticize sharply those we oppose.

[Enthusiast]

166. What Michael Moore said about

Bush was demonstrably true. Whereas what Beck claims about Liberals and Obama are pure insanity. Big difference. I don't advocate clamping down on free speech but every pressure should be exerted on Fox to curtail the extremely outrageous lies.

[oberliner]

169. I certainly won't argue with that

And I also agree with your comment about Fox news.

[TheEuclideanOne]

69. It is so hard to discuss things with people who are not clear thinkers

It is just a waste of everybody's time and frustrating for people who have a low tolerance for stupidity.

I think that the answer you gave does a great job of demonstrating the way you think.... you write a response to a post in the subject...then follow it with a statement supporting what you wrote in the subject.... then say that you do not agree with it and you were just quoting somebody in the blog you linked to, as if were some type of random quote that you just haphazzardly pulled out of thin air. In short, if I try to discuss this with you, I think my head will explode.

[oberliner]

82. Much better to just swear at someone and call them stupid!

The truth is, I am not sure that we even really disagree very much.

I think Beck is horrible and the things he says are awful and the people are whipped into a ridiculous paranoid frenzy of his own creation.

I do also agree with the Mother Jones article - I just didn't want to try to think I was passing off that person's words as my own.

Like that person, I think it's dangerous to blame the killing on Beck. I think unstable people will do unstable things. They could be set off by anything. A rant from Glenn Beck or a rant from someone on DU.

There are a lot of strong and in many cases angry sentiments being expressed here that are designed to enflame some passions.

Isn't it possible for an unstable individual to claim to have been inspired by something they read here to commit a violent act?

[TheEuclideanOne]

97. Sorry, have to go back to my last statement on clear thinking.

I can't do it. I thought I would try to reply back, but after reading your reply and your other posts, the only thing that IS CLEAR is that you are just one giant mess of contradictiions and false equivalencies.

[oberliner]

98. Thanks for the effort!

Glad to have had this worthwhile exchange of ideas.

[breadandwine]

64. Sure, Oberliner. Beck can do whatever the hell he wants to....

And Angle can advocate "2nd Amendment" action against Democorats.

Joe Miller can hold marches in Alaska with people carrying assault rifles.

They're for shooting squirrels..............

Libruls need to be rounded up.....

In the interest of free speech you understand.


Pay no attention to the evils of Glenn Beck.


After all, since when did speech ever cause people to die?

When Hitler wrote Mein Kampf he was just kidding around.......

[oberliner]

86. Again with the Hitler comparisons

Don't you see that invoking Hitler with respect to these crazy right-wingers is not that far off from the crap that they do?

If you are suggesting that a Hitler-like regime and a Nazi Germany-like fate awaits us if we don't do something about Glenn Beck and Sharron Angle and Joe Miller - then aren't you just as guilty of incitement?

[Enthusiast]

142. The comparisons to

Nazi Germany and their propaganda methods are directly applicable. The Nazis told the German people that all their economic ills were a result of the greedy subhuman Jews. This isn't far from the rants by Limbaugh and Beck on "liberals" and minorities.

[oberliner]

164. No similarity whatsoever between the current day United States and Nazi Germany

It is preposterous to think otherwise.

For one thing, all propaganda was controlled by the Nazi Party. There were no other contrary voices that could be broadcast. There was totalitarian control over all journalism and all other forms of media including the arts. This is not even remotely the case here and now in the United States where we have access to a plethora of voices with a wide range of perspectives. Probably moreso now than at any time in history with the explosion of internet journalism.

Limbaugh and Beck are just another two in the long line of RW idiots that have railed about various conspiracies and other nonsense on the radio and on television for decades.

They should be countered with intelligent folks on the left pointing out their many falsehoods and lies.

Thankfully many people are doing exactly that.

[breadandwine]

49. Here's video with audio of the gunman and of Beck on YouTube ---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoTpLr-mBLc&feature=player_embedded


So it's settled. Let the right wing internationale unite the human race.....


Watch the truth of Beck and.....

You'll know what to do.........


Hail Caesar.

Hail GOP.

Hail Beck.

[David Zephyr]

93. The million dollar question, arbusto_baboso.

This needs visibility. K&R.

[David Zephyr]

94. K&R. Spread this story around.

!

[gatorboy]

117. Oh, probably as much attention as they gave the man who shot up the "liberal" church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

On July 27, 2008, a politically motivated fatal shooting took place at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, United States. Motivated by a desire to kill liberals and Democrats, gunman Jim David Adkisson fired a shotgun at members of the congregation during a youth performance of a musical, killing two people and wounding seven others.

[SpiralHawk]

2. Beck (R) and the other overpaid Republicon chickenhawk demagogues

are a curse upon America and Americans

[Scuba]

3. Average Fox viewer.

[veganlush]

4. wow

[EC]

5. And I'm guessing NO ONE that he told this to

bothered to set him straight...tell him it's all bull-shit and tell him what Tides really does or that the ACLU will even protect him if he needed it...or asked him what is so bad about those organizations...I'll just bet not one person set him straight...

[HillbillyBob]

12. If someone had tried..like i have only to get shouted down by the loon

If their mouth is open they can't hear you.

[EC]

23. Just maybe if the cops or reporter or someone

had told him straight out (rather not nicely) that he was full of shit or laughed at him, maybe he would have heard it...

[RamboLiberal]

70. Beck has bosses that should be shutting this down

At one time there was some responsibility in media.

Ed Schultz gets reprimanded by his bosses for calling Christie a "cold-hearted fat slob", but Beck can say all kinds of crap about Obama and not hear a peep from Faux or his radio show syndicator.

[valerief]

17. As long as Beckkkmedia etal can legally lie 24/7, people will believe the lies. nt

[no_hypocrisy]

6. Hope the prosecutor calls Beck to the stand as a witness.

[Zambero]

40. It'll probably be the defense that calls Beck as a witness

After all, this misguided kook was "just doing what he was instructed to do" by Beck.

[slackmaster]

7. External locus of control

Always a convenient excuse.

[Nostradammit]

8. Yeah, remember poor Joseph Goebbels?

Everyone was always trying to blame him for what happened to the Jews and shit.

[slackmaster]

9. The difference is that Goebbels personally organized attacks against Jews

He didn't just say that Jews are bad, Jews are destroying our way of life, etc.

[Nostradammit]

13. Oh I agree with you, Beck is completely blameless in all of this

He's a fine, upstanding citizen with well-thought beliefs
who would never hurt those with whom he disagrees. Why can't
people see that? How can Beck be blamed when some whack job
starts killing people he's mentioned on his TV show?

[slackmaster]

14. Straw Man Fallacy

Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person....

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

[Nostradammit]

15. There are direct and obvious comparisons between the two

anyone with at least a room temperature i.q. is capable of seeing it.

[slackmaster]

24. There are direct and obvious comparisons between a Bugatti Veyron and a Kia too

anyone with at least a room temperature i.q. is capable of seeing it.

Apparently appreciating the differences requires somewhat more than a room temperature IQ.

[Enthusiast]

144. Your defense of Beck is extreme

for someone that participates in a progressive forum.

[slackmaster]

148. Yes it's extreme. Extremely hard to find.

Please point out where I have ever said that anything that Beck has said is OK.

Only on DU would declining to hyperbolically equate someone with Josef Goebbels be interpreted as "defending" him.

Thanks for the chuckle. I feel sorry for you.

[lastone]

162. heres the problem slackman

beck repeatedly went to the nth degree in calling for action, physical action against the same groups that this wackjob targeted, same w/billo and Dr. Tiller. They know or hoped they would incite one of their clueless followers to take action and then hid behind the first amendment when their words inspired violence. I'm all for free speech but one still can not yell fire in a movie theater, this i submit is the same thing.

[Riktor]

27. Yeah, ok...

And I suppose video games and Marilyn Manson are responsible for the Columbine shootings, and the Beatles are on the hook for the Manson Family murders.

At what point will this start to appear absurd to you?

[Nostradammit]

61. It is absurd to deny the link between demagogues

and the actions of those swayed by them.

[slackmaster]

75. The fact that you are free to make such a statement illustrates how different the situation was...

...in Nazi Germany compared to here and now. Nobody but Hitler had the liberty to denounce Goebbels.

[Nostradammit]

79. So I should shut up until there is parity?

[slackmaster]

83. I've spent the last two minutes trying to figure out how you could contort what I wrote into that

I give up.

No, I want you and everyone else to keep on criticizing Beck even if that includes equating him to Goebbels. The comparison seems quite a stretch to me; but as long as you can do that, we aren't in Nazi Germany yet.

More power to you.

[Nostradammit]

90. Was it always the case that nobody but Hitler had the liberty to denounce Goebbels?

Maybe if people had piped up a little earlier when the Nazis were getting
revved up the whole tragedy could have been avoided, yes? So when Americans
today see somebody on their TV screens who is acting all the world like a
modern-day Goebbels (albeit a more subtle one) they have every reason and
maybe even a duty to make the comparison, yes?

[slackmaster]

91. That's the spirit

Keep doing that.

[Nostradammit]

100. Thank you, I will.

[Enthusiast]

145. Plus one! nt

[Enthusiast]

143. Actually Beck did organize

anti-Obama zealots in the 9/12 project. His entire theme was Obama is a socialist and an enemy of all decent people and the America we grew up in, the America we love. So the comparisons to Nazi Germany are appropriate and valid. Maybe Beck isn't in the street in a brown shirt but there are only the finest of differences. In spirit Beck is the modern day Goebbels.

[slackmaster]

149. You're equating organizing people against one politician...

...To organizing people against an entire "race" of millions of people.

Maybe Beck isn't in the street in a brown shirt but there are only the finest of differences.

As demagogues go, Beck has nothing on even a chickenshit tinpot like Louis Farrakhan.

[Enthusiast]

151. Honestly, I find

that I seldom agree with your posts. Sorry.

[Doctor_J]

157. Thanks for posting this. I didn't see it the first 40 times

Well, maybe about 20 of the 40, but it never gets old.

[LanternWaste]

25. There difference being merely in degrees...

There difference being merely in degrees.

[oberliner]

18. Straight to the Nazi comparison

Not even close.

[Nostradammit]

20. Two highly paid propagandists for two fascist political parties

who both called for the dismantling of progressive
institutions and you think there is no comparison?

Ok.

[oberliner]

36. Come on now

Lots of cranks are paid to spread right-wing propaganda.

Do you understand who Goebbels was and what actually happened in Nazi Germany?

[Nostradammit]

60. Fuckin' A right I understand who Goebbels was and what happened in Germany

And I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and allow it to happen here.

This "kinder, gentler" fascism might actually be worse in the long run and
I don't for one minute believe that the highest ranks in the Republican party
aren't sympathetic to the Nazi causes and beliefs - they just have to go about
things a little differently because it didn't work out so well the last time
they tried to take over the planet.

Scoff at your own peril.

[oberliner]

77. Are you suggesting that what happened in Nazi Germany might happen here if we don't take action?

It almost seems as if you are inciting people to commit violence.

[Nostradammit]

85. That's absolutely what I am suggesting.

Do you disagree? And exactly where did I incite people to commit violence?

Your neck ever hurt from all those contortions?

[oberliner]

89. How is that different from what Glenn Beck is doing?

If you are telling people that Nazi Germany will come to the United States if we don't take action against Glenn Beck then how is that different from Glenn Beck telling people that Nazi Germany will come to the United States if we don't take action against The Tides Foundation?

In neither case was violence specifically proscribed, but in both cases, a sense of serious and imminent danger is presented to an extreme and terrifying degree.

[Nostradammit]

96. The difference is I'm not getting paid millions to incite millions to violence

Only a complete idiot would not see him for what he is and what
he is paid to do.

Nostradammit: Uh, hey everybody - there's a fire in the basement.

oberliner: That's not a fire, the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, now THAT was a fire!

Nostradammit: No, seriously, there is a fire in the basement and it's in danger of going
up the stairway.

oberliner: You've got a lot of nerve calling that puny blaze a fire!

Nostradammit: It is now in the living room - I'm outta here.
Good day.

oberliner: It's dangerous to try to compare this fire with the infernos of the pas....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH FIRE - RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oberliner]

99. So if you were given your own radio show, you would moderate your opinions?

You would not share your views with a larger audience if you had the opportunity to do so?

And, honestly, I do not mean to insult you by saying this, but your fire analogy is something that one might come across on the Glenn Beck show. In fact, I think he has used that exact imagery to describe what he purports to believe is happening right now. I believe there is a Media Matters clip demonstrating that.

[Nostradammit]

103. I would not use it to whip up fear and intolerance

against those who only wish to make the world a better place
for all its inhabitants - on that you may rely. I would not
use it to increase the wealth of the already obscenely wealthy
at the expense of everyone else - guarantee it. I would not use
it to incite "the exercise of our 2nd Amendment rights" against
the properly elected representatives in our government - promise.

That you can't see what is wrong with Glenn Beck's behavior does
not speak well of you.

[oberliner]

106. Look - I do see what is wrong with Glenn Beck's behavior

My only concern is the precedent that gets set with respect to this particular shooting incident being blamed on him.

I am sure the ACLU loathes the KKK but they still defend their right to march.

[Nostradammit]

111. And when the shooter himself cites Beck as an influence -

does that ameliorate any of your concern about this particular shooting incident being blamed on him?

Beck has done nothing actionable to tie himself to these acts, of course - he's far too clever
to do that - but it is in all of our interests to keep the microscope on his rhetoric and to
keep him as closely associated with the acts of his viewers as we can.

Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater is illegal and ill-advised. Unless, of course, there is an
actual fire.

[oberliner]

115. Mark Chapman cited Catcher in the Rye with respect to killing John Lennon

I don't think JD Salinger ought to have been blamed.

He did write a book that railed against phonies. Maybe that is what inspired Mark Chapman to kill John Lennon.

Still - the author should not take the blame, the shooter should.

[Nostradammit]

116. The huge differences between JD Salinger and John Lennon and Glenn Beck

are immeasurable. I understand your desire to keep the shooter's guilt
squarely upon the shooter's shoulders. If we have two more shooter's who
cite Beck as an influence will that change your opinion? How about twenty?
One hundred? At what point would Glenn Beck share in some of the blame?

[oberliner]

118. As are the huge differences between Joseph Goebbels and Glenn Beck

Also immeasurable. But we are both using analogies that are far from perfect in order to try to make our respective points. I think it's fair to say that we have exhausted our attempts to persuade one another and that we aren't going to agree on this.

Thank you for arguing your points with civility - you've certainly given me a lot to think about, though I still stand by my position.

[Nostradammit]

123. I don't think the differences are nearly as huge as you do.

I'll leave you with one more analogy that I think is very close to perfect.

A man comes home from work every day to find one of his neighbors
by the driveway. Every day the neighbor tells him that his wife has been
cheating on him while he is away at work. His wife has been faithful
to him and vehemently denies any wrong doing and the man wants to believe
her, but he grows increasingly suspicious.

After months of this he comes home to find the cable repair man in the
living room and his wife naked in the shower. The man is enraged with
jealousy and kills the cable guy and his wife. Now - does the neighbor who
told him all the lies about his wife's infidelities share any of the blame?

[oberliner]

124. Interesting scenario

First, I don't think it's a close-to-perfect analogy (though it is a good one). After all, this man drove towards The Tides Foundation HQ of his own volition. In your scenario, the man was faced with a situation that could appear suspicious, but is actually innocent.

In any case, let's say that I concede that the neighbor in your scenario should share some of the blame. What should be the consequence? Should the neighbor be arrested? Should people in general not be allowed to say things to their neighbors that aren't true?

My argument is that if we try to impose these kinds of limits on Beck's propaganda - what's to stop folks from trying to put limits on what Michael Moore says? He inflames some passions, does he not?

[Enthusiast]

147. Your level of

defense of Glenn Beck is highly suspicious to me. Just how many posts have you written to defend this piece of human filth?

This is a progressive forum, we don't need to be reminded of the sanctity of the freedom of speech. Odd that you don't already recognize that. I seriously wonder if you are "one of us".

[oberliner]

150. Thank you for your concern

I will write as many posts as is necessary to make my argument, which is that people should take responsibility for their actions and curbing the free speech of those we abhor will inevitable lead to curbing the free speech of those we admire.

The ACLU understands this - and I am pretty sure no one would accuse that organization of not being "one of us" in spite of their vigorous defense of the free speech rights of loathsome groups like the KKK.

Have you read the Mother Jones article that I linked to originally on the subject?

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/10/paging-glenn-beck

[Enthusiast]

146. Great post! And I agree with it wholeheartedly. nt

[TroglodyteScholar]

67. +100 n/t

[sabrina 1]

16. No excuse. There are crazy people listening in to these

shows, and any responsible person knows how easy it is to rile up someone like this. If they choose not to care about that possibility, then they do share the blame for what happens as a result of their irresponsibility.

This is not the first killer, or potential killer, who admitted to watching Beck and Fox News and being inspired to go out and eliminate 'liberals'.

Beck is missing this week, laying low I guess so he doesn't have to answer questions about this.

I know eg, that if I were to spew hatred towards someone in front of an emotionally disturbed individual who looked up to me, that I am risking driving that person to do something they should not do.

[thereismore]

10. Things like this WILL bring down Beck. Deservedly. nt

[LeftinOH]

19. Here he is:

I was expecting a blotchy, pasty-faced goober.

[slackmaster]

26. You aren't satisfied with a trim, youthful, well-groomed, tanned goober?

:hi:

[LeftinOH]

28. I suffer from preconceived notions; recovery is taking a while.

[texastoast]

34. Something about those creepy eyes . . .

That boy doesn't look right to me.

[dddem]

57. goober

hahahahaha! i love that word. Thanks for making me smile!

[RSillsbee]

22. I hate to be the one to defend Blech

but, you may as well blame Jodie Foster for John Hinkley's attack on Reagan

[DeSwiss]

31. Yes, why of course......

...because Jodie's known for her advocating of 2nd Amendment solutions -- and how she's always going on and on, on the teevee telling everyone who'll listen about how everything's going down the tubes -- and how Reagan hated white REAL AMERICAN people -- and how our country's being taken away from "us" and that SOMEONE SHOULD DO SOMETHING about it -- even though she's not advocating anything that's WRONG.

Yeah Jodie Foster is known for always saying stuff like that.

I don't know how I didn't see this sooner.

- Why they're almost EXACTLY alike!

:sarcasm: {Posted for the irony impaired}

[texastoast]

35. +1 n/t

[activa8tr]

45. Best post of the day! Congrats. Yes, I am amazed at some who post here who

want to DEFEND Beck.

Free speech is one thing, outright lies as free speech blabbered out irresponsibly to half a million paranoid Republicans and Tea Party idiots a day, five days a week. There's something very sick about that being OKAY and defensible in the USA.

[TheEuclideanOne]

101. I am actually okay with people defending Beck.

In fact, I would love to hear an intelligent defense of that asshole. But holy fucking hell, the things that I have read here go beyond the pale of stupidity. Defend Beck all you want, but give me something to work with here. Just when I thought I had my fill of stupid, I read they Jodie Foster comparison. I am sorry, but there is no place for me to go there. Did this board get invaded by Freepers or something?

btw, I totally agree with your "Best post of the day" observation and really had to vent about this thread in general.

[activa8tr]

170. Yeah, I'm actually with you. Defending Beck would be admirable IF

there was some logic and reason attached to it.

But the Jodi Foster comparison, gives me a real chuckle.

[kestrel91316]

43. I don't recall Jodie Foster ever calling publically for Reagan to be shot......

[RSillsbee]

46. I don't listen to BlecKKK

but I doubt very seriously he's out there calling for people to be shot.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

59. So, if someone does shoot him

can we blame you?

[RamboLiberal]

87. If you're near a bookstore or library

Read Dana Milbank's new book on Beck "Tears of a Clown". I knew Beck was inflammatory but reading many of his rants in the book - he's damn well getting as close to the line as possible before pulling back a fraction of an inch.

Here's one excerpt:

Beck on Obama and Pelosi: He asked: "You'd pick up a gun? Have you ever thought of that? These people have. Because possible, maybe the question should be asked, maybe they're tired of evolution, and maybe they are waiting for revolution."

"I'd never thought about revolution. I've never thought about armed insurrection or bombing or anything like that. Then I looked at the other side of the board and I realized---wow, the people around the president have. Not only have they thought about it, many have plotted it. Some of them actually engaged in bomb throwing."

"Those of you in the administration who are coming after me to remember the commandment 'Thou shall not kill'."

July 2009

"Please don't let this message fall on deaf ears. Please. I fear that there will come a time when I cannot say things that I am currently saying. I fear that it will come to television and to radio, and I will stop saying these things. Understand me clearly. Hear me now: If I ever stop saying these things, you will know why. Because I will have made a choice that I can only say certain things, and I haven't lost all of the rights. But know these things are true. And if you hear me stop saying these things, it's because I can no longer say them to you. But hear them between the sentences. Hear them, please. I will be screaming them to you."

[DeSwiss]

29. K&R

I know that Murdoch and Ailes are so proud of themselves. In one fell swoop they've created one program which inspires the commission of crimes, while their other programs can report on and then blame the Obama Administration for those crimes. And all brought to us by Goldline International.

- If you're a fascist, it doesn't get any better than this.......

[iamtechus]

30. Irresponsible use of print and broadcast media caused the Rwandan Genocide

According to recent commentators, the news media played a crucial role in the genocide; local print and radio media fueled the killings while the international media either ignored or seriously misconstrued events on the ground. The print media in Rwanda is believed to have started hate speech against Tutsis, which was later continued by radio stations. According to commentators, anti-Tutsi hate speech "...became so systemic as to seem the norm." The state-owned newspaper Kangura had a central role, starting an anti-Tutsi and anti-RPF campaign in October 1990. In the ongoing International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, the individuals behind Kangura have been accused of producing leaflets in 1992 picturing a machete and asking "What shall we do to complete the social revolution of 1959?" – a reference to the Hutu revolt that overthrew the Tutsi monarchy and the subsequent politically orchestrated communal violence that resulted in thousands of mostly Tutsi casualties and forced roughly 300,000 Tutsis to flee to neighboring Burundi and Uganda. Kangura also published the infamous "10 Hutu Commandments," which regulated all dealings with Tutsis and how Hutus are to treat them. It communicated the message that the RPF had a devious grand strategy against the Hutu (one feature article was titled "Tutsi colonization plan").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

[Caliman73]

66. It was not merely irresponsible, it was directly criminal.

The frustration is that Beck and his ilk understand the limits of what they can say that will get them into legal problems and they skirt that line closely. We often think that they cross the line, but I think that if the line was actually crossed then someone would sue. A good presentation on the First Amendment is the HBO special "Shouting Fire".

The role of the media during the Rwandan genocide was pretty clear. As you displayed with the article, the newspaper issued specific instructions on how to treat the Tutsi. There were daily calls on the radio to "go down to the roadblock, pick up a machete, and kill a cockroach." That is direct incitement to violence.

Beck is a very twisted person, and I think ultimately he will be his own undoing, but I am not sure that his ranting reaches the level of direct incitement.

[Trocadero]

32. Beck has already howled like a stuck pig

Something along the lines of "now I'm being called a terrorist for exposing corruption!"

[BlueJazz]

33. I DO blame Beck for stuff like this.

True...it may be only 1 percent but when you add Rush and countless other right-wing liars to the mix. it
can and does influence unstable individuals to perform terrible deeds.

I very seldom hear a lefty advocate physically harming another individual.

Right wingers may not "cross the line" but the nutters assume that they have and act accordingly.

It's very easy to incite someone and not actually say the whole sentence.
"Yeah...well..that bitch has it comin'..tonight I'm going to rip off her..." ....(chocolate bars that she's been hiding from me)

[slackmaster]

38. Who do you blame for the actions of the Discovery Channel HQ gunman?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38957020/

[BlueJazz]

42. everybody and nobody

[RamboLiberal]

65. Jumping in on this discussion I don't remember Discovery

Or the Beatles, or Jodie Foster saying stuff like this. Yes there are the deranged out there who pick up on the damndest things to justify murder or mayhem, but Beck definitely dog whistles nearly every day to them.

Beck said that he was "going to be like ... the Israeli Nazi hunters," adding, "I'm going to find these big progressives and, to the day I die, I'm going to be a progressive hunter." Beck continued: "I'm going to find these people that have done this to our -- you know, to our country, and expose them. I don't care where -- I don't care if they're in nursing homes. I'm going to expose what they have done and make sure that the people understand, because our Constitution, our republic -- if it survives -- it will only survive because the people are waking up and through the grace of God, because we are that close to losing our republic."

In August of 2009, he called supporters of health care reform "traitor(s)" and said that "the American way of life is being systematically dismantled and destroyed," that "the republic is in danger," and that "we are entering the most dangerous time in American history." He quickly clarified: "My fellow American, it is not time to pick up guns. It is not time. It is not time to blow anything up."

But a month later, he was saying: "You can try to put the lid on this group of people, but you will never silence us. You will never -- you can shoot me in the head, you can shoot the next guy in the head, but there will be 10 others that line up. And it may not happen today, it may not happen next week, but freedom will be restored in this land. Period."

And just last month on his radio show, after Byron's alleged assassination plot, Beck continued to demonize Tides. Saying he had a "message" for the "people at the Tides Foundation," Beck warned: "I'm coming for you. Oh, I'm coming for you. Oh, no, not in a -- Glenn Beck making threats, no, nope -- I'm just gonna reverse all the things that you have done. ... I'm coming for you, on the battlefield of ideas."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201010110002

Of course it is not just Beck. Scary how many of the Republican and Tea Party candidates, spokespeople and office holders do this as well.

[proud patriot]

74. did this person blame an individual broadcaster for his actions?

bryon williams guy said glenn beck blew his mind .

[slackmaster]

76. Are we to take the word of a self-proclaimed madman?`

:crazy:

[Pathwalker]

88. Are you referring to Beck, or the shooter?

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

92. Both

:hi:

[oberliner]

95. "I very seldom hear a lefty advocate physically harming another individual"

There is one doing just that on this very thread.

From post 47: "HE'S the one needs to be shot, IMHO."

[BlueJazz]

112. You KNOW I don't agree with that. I can't be against the death penalty...

...and advocate killing someone.

[oberliner]

122. Of course

Just saying that people on the left do say things that theoretically could motivate an already unstable person towards committing a violent act.

[BlueJazz]

125. Yep....Can't argue with that.... :(

[Crunchy Frog]

131. You'll let us know when he gets his own television show, won't you.

[oberliner]

132. Who knew that Glenn Beck would get his own television show?

Have you heard clips of his early radio days?

Hard to believe the way it's all played out.

[Crunchy Frog]

136. Yes, and when the anonymous DU poster gets his own radio or TV show

I'll start worrying about him.

[oberliner]

163. Sounds fair to me

Although, I don't think I'd worry about him even if the poster did have his own radio or TV show.

[GreenTea]

41. Only a moronic republican sheep will believe otherwise.......

But then these are uninformed, uneducated working class republican voters, and these idiot fools always vote with the corporations interest and with any republican racist homophobic fundamentalist hypocritical republican - These working class pinheads hate exceeds their own best financial interest and these idiots actually believe Limbaugh and the republicans, that they too will be rich one day - How do these hicks becomes so gullible and backwards and stupid? - I know, it's their simplton blind hatred for anyone of color that's preached to them 24/7 on republican talk radio & republican Fox 'news" propaganda.

[craigmatic]

44. There ought to be a law against people who get on TV or radio advocating

this kind of violence.

[alp227]

48. Free speech ends upon advocating violence against others.

So if you could legislate, you'd prosecute G. Gordon Liddy for calling on listeners to shoot ATF agents in the head to defend listeners' gun rights?

[craigmatic]

155. Probably so

[Politicalboi]

63. Just imagine a Black Panther "inspired" by Obama

To kill Glenn Beckkk. That would be #1 story today. There would be a call for war perhaps. Faux viewers are crazy enough to do anything they tell them to do.

[RamboLiberal]

68. Hell with some of the stuff Beck has been saying

He's dog whistling that Obama is out to murder him. Geez, even talking of poisons with this latest illness of his. Telling his followers if something happens to him they will know who did it. Wearing a bulletproof vest nearly every time he's in public plus having security that mimics the Secret Service. Hell I bet Beck wears a vest more often than President Obama.

And don't tell me threats against the President haven't been fueled by the likes of Beck.

Sure Beck and his ilk didn't start the fire but they sure as hell don't mind throwing a bit of gasoline on it and shutting off the water.

[PBass]

80. Kicked and recommended - a Right Wing Terrorist

Beck's inflammatory rhetoric is dangerous.

[AAAProgressive]

102. Heads Up-New Palin LIE

Sarah Palin caught "red-handed": The "road trip" with the "motor home" from Alaska to LA that never happened - Quit making things up, Sarah!
http://palingates.blogspot.com/2010/10/sarah-palin-caught-red-handed-road-trip.html

[Skittles]

104. what an asshole

Tides Foundation:

Our mission is to partner with philanthropists, foundations, activists, and organizations across the country and across the globe to promote economic justice, robust democratic processes, and the opportunity to live in a healthy and sustainable environment where human rights are preserved and protected.

[oberliner]

110. Amen to that

It's amazing to me that he has been able to build such a following.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

105. Why is it Dan Rather gets fired for doing a report on a true story, and Beck's rants feed loons....

.... without coverage by the MSM? That is the question. The Corporate media most definitely not only doesn't care about the ramifications of the pundits' rants and fear they pay huge bucks to, but they rely on them.

[oberliner]

108. Because of who their respective bosses are

The people who pay Glenn Beck's salary are paying him to go on these sorts of rants.

[Shining Jack]

119. Will Beck get at least a slap on the wrist for this?

I don't think so either.

[truthrocks]

120. No wonder Beck took a few days off for medical tests. Good timing.

[gatorboy]

121. Reminds me of this story (Which was swept under the rug by the MSM obviously)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

On July 27, 2008, a politically motivated fatal shooting took place at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee, United States. Motivated by a desire to kill liberals and Democrats, gunman Jim David Adkisson fired a shotgun at members of the congregation during a youth performance of a musical, killing two people and wounding seven others.

---------------------------

The following books were found in Adkisson's home during a police search:<9>

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by radio talk show host Michael Savage

Let Freedom Ring: Winning the War of Liberty over Liberalism by talk show host Sean Hannity

The O'Reilly Factor: The Good, the Bad, and the Completely Ridiculous in American Life by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly

In his manifesto, Adkisson also included the Democratic members of the House and Senate,<11> and the 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America of Bernard Goldberg in his list of wished-for targets.

[oberliner]

126. Awful story

Some very heroic people at that church.

[RoccoR5955]

127. High time to take that bass turd off the air!

If he's inciting people to commit crimes, he's an accessory to those crimes, and should be convicted as such.

[G_j]

129. I couldn't find this story from any of the corp. media outlets

nice....:mad:

[ezmerelda39]

133. Glenn Beck is a playground bully who

instigates a good squabble then stands back while the others fight it out. He gets paid millions to do what he does. It is all a show and people love to hate whatever his hateful thing of the day happens to be. The fact that he is the equivalent of a subversive terrorist is buried in his false, tearful enthusiasm for God, Mom and the Flag. He is an accident searching for a place to happen, but will not take part, only claim innocence after the fact. Any day now.....

[anachro1]

134. Beck's "spiritual illness" period

He must have gotten wind of the fact that this story was going to go public.
Beck is ELATED the shooter gave him credit (not to mention all the attention),
so he's off celebrating his "power".

May he drink himsellf to death.

[Divine Discontent]

137. it sure sounds like clear proof of incitement if they would look into it. nt

[slackmaster]

158. The state of California will never go after an entertainer

What Beck does is big business here.

[h9socialist]

152. I guess this makes Beck an "unindicted co-conspirator"

Men in white suits carrying nets, I have exciting news!

[Initech]

156. Beck is a psycho, and he's breeding psycho followers.

:nuke:

[grahamhgreen]

159. There is ni doubt that Beck is advocating violence against us, while trying

To stay within the legal confines of the law.

[lastone]

160. glenn beck

should be in fucking prison w/that mental midget asshole fuckjob he taught at the teeeveee school.

[RamboLiberal]

161. Mike Malloy calls Glenn Beck a 'co-conspirator' 'dry drunk dry drug user'

Progressive national radio talk show hosts Mike Malloy and Bill Press are blasting fellow radio host Glenn Beck over the Byron Williams case.

Malloy noted an article published on Monday, October 11, on Media Matters for America’s Web site as well as an Examiner.com article based on jailhouse interviews with Williams. Williams has been in jail since July 18 after getting into a gun battle with the California Highway Patrol (CHP) on the I-580 freeway in Oakland. Williams said he planned to kill people at the left-leaning Tides Foundation.

"Glenn Beck is a co-conspirator in the case," Malloy told his listeners on Monday. "He should be in jail."

Malloy went on to say that FOX News personality is "pathologically nuts," a "paranoid schizophrenic" and "a dry drunk and a dry drug user."


http://www.examiner.com/sf-in-san-francisco/mike-malloy-calls-glenn-beck-a-co-conspirator-the-byron-williams-case

[RamboLiberal]

165. Rep. Peter King on Byron Williams/Beck Story: 'Words Have Consequences'

The top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee responded to Media Matters' story on alleged gunman Byron Williams' affinity for Glenn Beck by warning that public figures need to be aware of the impact of their words.

Yesterday, Media Matters posted the report revealing that Williams' alleged plot was inspired by conspiracy theories peddled by Beck and other right-wing media figures.

According to police, Williams said he wanted to start a "revolution" by killing employees of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU.

Asked to comment on the consequences of extremist rhetoric generally and the Byron Williams/Beck story in particular, Rep. Peter King (R-NY) said in an e-mail statement: "It is important that everyone in public life, whether on the right or on the left, realize that words have consequences."

http://mediamatters.org/strupp/201010120035

[Rex]

168. Glenn Beck is instigating violence upon a charity. How long do we have to put up with this?

But that is okay to some, as long as he makes the money and pays the bills. :eyes:

Why doesn't he go after supposed charities that fund terrorism...oh right, he would find links to the RWing elite.

Glenn Beck => warm pitcher of spit.

[and-justice-for-all]

171. Beckkk and Fox are repsonsible for their actions..

as much as the guy pulling the trigger is. Beckkk is notorious for speaking in a hostile manner and encouraging people to take a 'revolutionary' approach for taking 'their country back'. Beckkk instills fear, delusion, paranoia and false anger in to people.

1. Williams should go to prison.
2. Beckkk should be fired (from TV and Radio)
3. Fox (along with any other media outlet) should pay a heavy fine for their employees actions.