House passes first hurdle in health care; debate begins

[TomCADem]

Source: Associated Press

The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government's mandates.

Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price gouging, bid rigging and market allocation.

At its core, the measure would create a federally regulated marketplace where consumers could shop for coverage. In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private firms.

The bill is projected to expand coverage to 36 million uninsured, resulting in 96 percent of the nation's eligible population having insurance.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33748707/ns/politics-health... /

[Beartracks]

1. How do we know....

How do we know that if insurance companies are no longer able to...

1) deny coverage for pre-existing conditions,
2) charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history, or
3) be exempted from federal antitrust restrictions,

... that they won't just reduce coverage to make up the buck$?

Statistics will still show that people "have insurance" -- which satisfies the mandate -- even if those people do not actually get "health care."

Or am I missing something in the legislation?

[twitomy]

2. Good Questions..I would like to know how

forcing people to buy something is constitutional. This will go to the courts if it passes.

[Mithreal]

10. Car insurance?

[dflprincess]

14. You don't have to own a car

I think the car insurance bills are rationalized that way and the idea that insurance is part of the expense of car ownership.

[Mithreal]

15. I don't understand that as a counter argument

not saying I disagree, I just don't understand it.

[Abq_Sarah]

16. Basically

This legislation forces you to buy a product from a private company as a condition of living in this country.

I'll be very interested to see the amount of campaign donations from the insurance industry in the 2010 elections.

[Mithreal]

19. This was all about securing those 2010 and 2012 campaign funds

People of lesser means will not have to buy, it will be subsidized. People with greater means will be required to buy insurance or pay a new tax, right, so paying for private insurance is not a condition for living in this country.

[Rozlee]

12. My daughter is dating an Israeli and he says that they are required

to buy health insurance. It just cracked me up. Glenn Beckkk, Limbaugh, Bachmann... all of them equating health care reform to the halocaust; while the decendents of the Halocaust have single-payer and rate 28th in health care globally to our 37th. Yeah, it'll probably go to the courts. But, it'll probably win. Taxes for Medicare and Social Security won even though some people stated they wouldn't collect and shouldn't pay -- damn few!! But, I'm on my 4th Hot Damn and I'll try and think of some more examples if the buzzing in my head let's me.

[donquijoterocket]

22. vegetables

I'm sure you realize that if you added the IQs of the people you mention multiplied by an order of magnitude you'd still have an asparagus patch, and with glennda the beckerhead in there you might get a negative number.Beside the Israeli model there's the Swiss who mandate that their insurance companies operate as nonprofits and are so heavily regulated that most American companies would fold at the sight of the regulations.The wingnut faction has been so far out of reality during this whole debate that only the omissions of the SCLM kept this country from a huge laughing fit.

[TomCADem]

3. The Legislation Sets A Floor and Eliminates Lifetime Limits On Coverage

http://www.reuters.com/article/regulatoryNewsHealthcare...

###

* Creates an insurance market exchange where individuals and small businesses would purchase coverage. Sets minimum benefit packages that may be offered through the exchange.

* Bars insurers from excluding people for pre-existing conditions and from charging more based on medical history.

* Provides for consumer rebates if premiums far exceed the cost of covering their medical expenses.

* Eliminates lifetime limits on coverage.

* Expands Medicaid eligibility so that anyone with an income up to 150 percent of the poverty level would qualify for the government healthcare program for the poor.

###

[Beartracks]

11. Minimum benefit packages?

Minimum benefit packages -- these are only established/required for plans offered through the "exchange"?

[Abq_Sarah]

17. I don't quite understand this

Provides for consumer rebates if premiums far exceed the cost of covering their medical expenses.

This is insurance, not a pay as you go program. It depends on people paying more than they use to cover people who have catastrophic health issues who use far more than they pay.

[Proletariatprincess]

4. Gov't insurance higher?

WTF?
Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private firms.

Wasn't the public option intended to bring down health insurance costs by creating competition? Isn't that why the scumbag insurance companies tried to kill it...and still are?
So...what we got...or are getting if this thing passes, is a Federally regulated market place where consumers can shop for coverage.
This is just crap. Health insurance is not a commodity where the consumer can compare and save. Insurance companies are liars and thieves. What they offer and what they deliver often don't even come close. And, since we can only judge coverage when we actually need to use it, how can anyone be a savvy consumer?
The fact is...for profit health care is unworkable. It kills people and destroys families.
Insurance for profit is legalized extortion...and it preys on the most venerable in the area of health care. Now we will all be mandated to subsidize this unscrupulous Enterprise.
This is a deal that Tony Soprano would love.

[TomCADem]

5. Link? Is it the current version?

Just want to make sure we are talking about the current bill. Would like to read the latest CBO report on that to see what the assumptions are.

[pattmarty]

7. There is a LONG way to go here. This bill will have to pass.................

............then the Senate's version will have to pass the Senate. THEN, the Senate version and House version will be "reconciled" and BOTH houses will have to pass THAT (final) bill which the President would sign into law. So, what is out there now in these "bills" is going to be different from the FINAL bill the President will sign. So there is "drama" today on Cspan and the cable networks, but this is FAR from over.

[ixion]

6. this is crap

mark my words: This is a windfall only for insurance companies, and will be a major pain in the ass for taxpayers.

[pattmarty]

8. I agree. And, let me add will probably be a huge pain in the ass.................

.............for Dems now and in the future when the people finally see how they got fucked. Rove's "Republican for a generation" will be put into effect by the Dems with this bill.

[TomCADem]

9. Oddly, AHIP Has Spent Millions Opposing The Bill...

...and the GOP just offered an alternative that does mirror AHIP's wish list, which does not look at all like the Democratic proposals. And, the so-called corporatist Democrats are voting against the bill along with Republicans. Are you suggesting that Republicans and conservative Democrats are really anti-big business?

[Abq_Sarah]

18. There isn't a heck of a lot of real reform here.

We should be able to buy our own insurance and write it off on our taxes. If you leave your job, your insurance goes with you to your next job. Insurance companies should be prohibited from dropping coverage or raising rates based on claims of the insured and there should be a subsidized pool set up for people with preexisting conditions/Low income levels and the unemployed to ensure they will always be able to purchase insurance. The system should be set up to benefit the consumer, not our representatives and that means offering different types of insurance for different needs.

[ixion]

20. nope, there isn't...

which is why I was opposed to the bill, which has now passed.

From this great distance, I can hear the sound of insurance companies and BigMed celebrating.

[twitomy]

21. My thoughts exactly.

If this is such a great improvement that the voters want, as some here seem to believe, then we should see the Dems pick up more seats in the midterms as a reward. Wanna bet that doesnt happen?

[joeycola]

13. Oh joys, and they bargained away women's reproductive rights!!

It appeared that a compromise brokered Friday night on the volatile issue of abortion had finally secured the votes needed to pass the legislation.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

As drafted, the measure denied the use of federal subsidies to purchase abortion coverage in policies sold by private insurers in the new insurance exchange, except in cases of incest, rape or when the life of the mother was in danger. ...........