History of Feminism

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)

20. "...We don't need this battle"

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 12:55 PM

Apr 2012

We already WON this battle.

It was called THE SEVENTIES.

The fact that you use the term "single-earner families" shows
that people today make hard choices about how to care for
children and the elderly that don't preclude a woman having
NO CHOICE, or pretending that "homemaker" is a career.

People, men and women alike, from FREEPERVILLE, are
not going to vote for us regardless of how we pander to
outmoded gender stereotypes.

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Ann Romney and raising children: [View all] Texasgal Apr 2012 OP

I seriously doubt Ann Romney has ever actually worked on or for much of anything - literally Siwsan Apr 2012 #1

Oh, hey I agree.. Texasgal Apr 2012 #3

Nearly two decades ago, the mother of my godchild expressed the attitude... hlthe2b Apr 2012 #2

I don't think Ann is a "bad" Texasgal Apr 2012 #4

and btw hlthe2b seabeyond Apr 2012 #170

If only we could be two places at once and "truly" do/have/experience it all. hlthe2b Apr 2012 #173

as a mother of 5... handmade34 Apr 2012 #5

I agree... ALL women Texasgal Apr 2012 #6

why? iverglas Apr 2012 #27

I think that you have highlighted the difference between N. American Feminism and N. European Tumbulu Apr 2012 #28

that sounds muddled to me iverglas Apr 2012 #30

Muddled? Why? Tumbulu Apr 2012 #77

as I just said below iverglas Apr 2012 #88

I get the feeling that we are misunderstanding each other Tumbulu Apr 2012 #177

I hope this story goes away after the Sunday talking head shows are done chewing it customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #7

I think you're wrong. I don't think there are many "traditional homemakers" left. PassingFair Apr 2012 #9

see, this is the thing. we do see it differently seabeyond Apr 2012 #10

I understand. When my youngest daughter was in second grade... PassingFair Apr 2012 #11

i dont see it as a career. seabeyond Apr 2012 #12

I really get it! PassingFair Apr 2012 #13

i just read an OP in GD that i am defined as "a lady of leisure". that is a real seabeyond Apr 2012 #15

Unbelievable. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #61

I am sorry, I do see it as a career Tumbulu Apr 2012 #80

wow iverglas Apr 2012 #99

I agree Tumbulu, raising children is real work.... Little Star Apr 2012 #109

While there may not be many of those types of women where you live customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #19

"...We don't need this battle" PassingFair Apr 2012 #20

Then you don't have a clue what's going on in suburbia and rural areas customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #32

we see it on the thread. and you are right on. seabeyond Apr 2012 #33

The Repukes thrive on this customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #35

i agree. i am disgusted by the whole thing seabeyond Apr 2012 #36

They want to change the Subject from birth control. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #63

if she had merely said.... had never been in the workforce. but, even what she said was not a big seabeyond Apr 2012 #66

No, but of course the right wing noise machine is going to latch onto it. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #70

I LIVE in suburbia. Once a kid is in 1st grade.... PassingFair Apr 2012 #34

Maybe you live with people who have gotten past the debate customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #37

If you really are a "guy", then it speaks volumes that you are the only one PassingFair Apr 2012 #39

Ah, yes, I've seen that here before customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #40

Not worthless. Did you read the OP? PassingFair Apr 2012 #51

Ok, then since I'm a straight guy customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #54

I guess I live in a nice place. PassingFair Apr 2012 #55

You're right, I'll admit customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #57

If you think that being a homemaker is not helping "the fiscal well being of our families" customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #38

though i forgot the tax level i would be at, i basically said the same as you in another post. so, seabeyond Apr 2012 #42

Thanks, well said customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #43

that is another thing. i am seeing more and more fathers as SAHFs. i love it. really appreciate seabeyond Apr 2012 #45

There is a similar thing that goes on with men customerserviceguy Apr 2012 #52

i see that often too. hence, why i say this issue is solely about pitting women against women seabeyond Apr 2012 #58

Absolutely. I'm someone who has done both. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #60

I agree with you (nt) Tumbulu Apr 2012 #81

and I keep having a problem with this view of women iverglas Apr 2012 #47

yes.... what you are saying. i prefer to say people that stay at home, recognizing more men are seabeyond Apr 2012 #56

the problem being that "people" do NOT stay at home iverglas Apr 2012 #67

Some data on (US) stay at home dads Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #69

what stay at home parent stays home for more than a few years per child? Tumbulu Apr 2012 #82

one of the biggest challenges for me was having worked for a couple decades seabeyond Apr 2012 #89

"watching" children iverglas Apr 2012 #93

no stereotype about it iverglas, a reality. yes, lets argue for it. i am all for that. seabeyond Apr 2012 #95

Well this was my work personality as well Tumbulu Apr 2012 #171

romneys are clueless to how so many in the nation live because of wealth. seabeyond Apr 2012 #8

To be honest, I've been growing increasingly uncomfortable with progressives piling on Ann Romney... wildflower Apr 2012 #14

You don't see anyone making remarks about boston bean Apr 2012 #16

right on BB. this is how i see it. nt seabeyond Apr 2012 #17

Yes, this. Exactly. n/t MadrasT Apr 2012 #21

Yes... good point..Admittedly, I am still more focused on the hypocrisy relative to Mitt's comments hlthe2b Apr 2012 #159

Thanks for this thread MadrasT Apr 2012 #18

I would like to see men put under the magnifying glass for a fucking change. seabeyond Apr 2012 #22

My husband is a stay at home dad Nikia Apr 2012 #23

My husband and I both worked full time jobs. boston bean Apr 2012 #24

And that's the other thing, right there: The nuclear family, the mobilization of society Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #48

well, I do have an issue with women staying at home to raise children iverglas Apr 2012 #25

Choosing to be a mother is a major life changing choice Tumbulu Apr 2012 #29

again, I'm not sure where this is iverglas Apr 2012 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2012 #73

thanks and very interesting iverglas Apr 2012 #143

You are most entitled to your opinions on the matter Tumbulu Apr 2012 #178

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2012 #180

I think that you have asked a good thought provoking question Tumbulu Apr 2012 #181

OK, some thoughts and questions Tumbulu Apr 2012 #182

In my reply above I posted the link to the parental leave Tumbulu Apr 2012 #79

well I guess when it gets to this point: iverglas Apr 2012 #84

They should have said "I find your anti mothers-staying-at-home-attitude positively puzzling' Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #90

false dichotomies iverglas Apr 2012 #94

i think people are working really hard not to "disparage women who have jobs" seabeyond Apr 2012 #97

Not at all. Even my current job is soul destroying... Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #105

jobs are soul-destroying iverglas Apr 2012 #111

Yr not getting it because I didn't say that, nor anything remotely close to it... Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #113

only in it for the money iverglas Apr 2012 #116

Just out of curiosity... Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #41

curiosity is a good thing iverglas Apr 2012 #44

I'm guessing "no". Not because it's any of my business, but because, from your post Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #46

guess what you like iverglas Apr 2012 #49

No, I'm saying you don't seem to have any idea what the job- and yes, it's a job- of being a parent Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #50

I really think you should quit this while you're behind iverglas Apr 2012 #53

Quit what? Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #59

I think you're out of line with this line of questioning. PassingFair Apr 2012 #62

Really. So experience as a stay at home parent doesn't count, regardless of gender? Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #64

Not if you're questioning the validity of her opinion like you are. PassingFair Apr 2012 #65

Well, like I said Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #68

what a very strange analogy iverglas Apr 2012 #71

To be fair, I missed the part of the OP directing it to, quote, "ladies" Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #72

This is the history of feminism group boston bean Apr 2012 #74

I'm actually agreeing with what Warren's been saying... Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #98

oh well iverglas Apr 2012 #102

Hey Violet... I would like to explain further the point to my post to Warren boston bean Apr 2012 #106

That's cool.... Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #107

I'm sure too! boston bean Apr 2012 #108

but the post you replied to iverglas Apr 2012 #112

That's because I still agree with Warren, and he wasn't attempting anything of the sort... Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #114

well, really iverglas Apr 2012 #117

Actually, that's NOT what I said. In fact, it's a total misrepresentation of what I said. Warren DeMontague Apr 2012 #175

I back you up on this and find the opinions Tumbulu Apr 2012 #76

No, it is not. MadrasT Apr 2012 #78

I am not pitting one against the other Tumbulu Apr 2012 #83

having two kids, two and half yrs seperate seabeyond Apr 2012 #86

I thank you for following your intuition Tumbulu Apr 2012 #167

well, see seabeyond Apr 2012 #169

And it is work that can hardly be considered full-time, once the kids are in school. PassingFair Apr 2012 #144

I'm not so sure the objective is to "revere" stay at home mothers. boston bean Apr 2012 #75

what I don't think is right iverglas Apr 2012 #85

iverglas boston bean Apr 2012 #87

if I saw anyone in this thread iverglas Apr 2012 #91

I just want to be clear, is what you are saying boston bean Apr 2012 #92

better to ask open-ended questions iverglas Apr 2012 #96

iverglas.... with who i am, raising children is ideal for me. everything about it. seabeyond Apr 2012 #103

and yet I didn't say that iverglas Apr 2012 #110

There are options that are available boston bean Apr 2012 #128

then why am I the only one saying this? iverglas Apr 2012 #130

They are too busy defending themselves boston bean Apr 2012 #136

maybe they are too busy inventing things iverglas Apr 2012 #139

yes, this. n/t Scout Apr 2012 #140

The conversations take on a life of their own boston bean Apr 2012 #142

i am not going to apologize or work really hard to insist that i work with babies. i LOVE my job seabeyond Apr 2012 #100

wow iverglas Apr 2012 #101

why????? lol. nt seabeyond Apr 2012 #104

Perhaps you do not realize that 80% of women have to go back to work Tumbulu Apr 2012 #162

"you dont get to take my choice away from me" Scout Apr 2012 #119

this would just be one of a handful seabeyond Apr 2012 #122

and how does that lead to taking away your choice? Scout Apr 2012 #123

if not facilitating a choice to the nth degree iverglas Apr 2012 #126

but you basically confirmed me saying you do not want a parent to have the choice of raising their seabeyond Apr 2012 #131

I think that's about enough for today iverglas Apr 2012 #133

sigh... well, there was no intent to be either ugly or mispresenting what you are saying seabeyond Apr 2012 #135

a few. the feel i get anyway. seabeyond Apr 2012 #129

how really quite awful iverglas Apr 2012 #132

what??? seabeyond Apr 2012 #137

here is what you said to me iverglas Apr 2012 #141

let me try woman-speak iverglas Apr 2012 #156

" try woman-speak". ok. but, i am not good at it. seabeyond Apr 2012 #163

hey.... seabeyond Apr 2012 #179

as long as I'm reading last Saturday's Toronto Star ;) iverglas Apr 2012 #26

I'd have been interested in a little more discussion of this iverglas Apr 2012 #120

can women weigh in? or only ladies? Scout Apr 2012 #115

it occurred to me a little while ago iverglas Apr 2012 #118

well, i'm posting from work ... multi-tasking ... i have two monitors Scout Apr 2012 #121

I was going to mention the two monitors ;) iverglas Apr 2012 #124

except what i see there is like ONE, possibly two stay at homes..... seabeyond Apr 2012 #125

it wasn't an argument, it was an observation iverglas Apr 2012 #127

ok. a false observation. i am a stay at home. tumbulu may be, i am not sure. seabeyond Apr 2012 #134

no, yours is the false observation iverglas Apr 2012 #138

I farm 100 acres organically/biodynamically Tumbulu Apr 2012 #165

ok, you have a job, too. lol. seabeyond Apr 2012 #168

well, since it is my own farm and business Tumbulu Apr 2012 #172

i spent my 20's very selfishly working on myself not to allow others to define me. seabeyond Apr 2012 #174

Thanks seabeyond Tumbulu Apr 2012 #176

"What Mother doesn't want to raise kids at home full-time? " Scout Apr 2012 #160

over the years, this is where i go with all this. seabeyond Apr 2012 #164

I know plenty that far prefer their paying jobs- wonderful - Tumbulu Apr 2012 #166

Interesting. Texasgal Apr 2012 #145

is it really fair iverglas Apr 2012 #146

It's predictable Texasgal Apr 2012 #147

well iverglas Apr 2012 #148

It's beyond discussion. Texasgal Apr 2012 #151

perhaps iverglas Apr 2012 #152

Fully aware. Texasgal Apr 2012 #153

hey... was gonna give you a shout out. busy working. upside with my jjjjob, ok seabeyond Apr 2012 #161

and you tried so hard to make the thread a good discussion Scout Apr 2012 #149

to be fair scout, I think this was the first sentence of the OP: boston bean Apr 2012 #154

I think we've seen many different opinions. PassingFair Apr 2012 #158

so ... where is the line drawn? iverglas Apr 2012 #150

What do you think? nt boston bean Apr 2012 #155

whatever iverglas Apr 2012 #157