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exactly BB. it is the last year of listening to men tell me what i am suppose to think, feel and seabeyond Jan 2013 #1
Isn't the word "meninist" what men who support feminism call themselves now? Little Star Jan 2013 #2
Sounds like a made up word for men... Deep13 Jan 2013 #277
It doesn't sound that way to me. I felt it was preceptive and a clever way to... Little Star Jan 2013 #285
That is a path many feminists have been on. redqueen Jan 2013 #3
this is what spawned my thread boston bean Jan 2013 #5
Yeah. redqueen Jan 2013 #7
I saw that early this morning, cringed, thought about responding, then lost the thread... hlthe2b Jan 2013 #38
Hello, broad brush! Meet generalization jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #4
i came here via another thread in GD... actslikeacarrot Jan 2013 #6
If a sizeable number of feminists prefer the term male ally, why is that a big deal? redqueen Jan 2013 #8
Once again, the true cognitive dissonance of some males boston bean Jan 2013 #10
Ok, now I see the original thread jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #25
the problem as I see it jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #12
Feminism is the struggle for equal rights for women. boston bean Jan 2013 #13
a couple three things. first, seabeyond Jan 2013 #16
good one again! Thanks Sea! boston bean Jan 2013 #18
I don't even know who's male or not jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #33
really? i think a lot of women as speaking out on the issues, expressing themselves well. i do not seabeyond Jan 2013 #36
"what basis do you have to say anything about it?" a womans movement and we are women, hear us roar? seabeyond Jan 2013 #9
LOL sea! good post! boston bean Jan 2013 #11
That's a different issue jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #14
uh jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #17
Are you a man? boston bean Jan 2013 #19
you are right, we may not be being fair and you may not have an understanding because seabeyond Jan 2013 #22
but how does changing terminology help? unblock Jan 2013 #49
here's how I read it jollyreaper2112 Jan 2013 #21
at this point i have to ask. sincerely. why do you "need" the title? seabeyond Jan 2013 #23
"that means shuttin the fuck up, listening to what they say, respecting them... redqueen Jan 2013 #28
offhand i can't think of a term for a pro-black black or a pro-homosexual homosexual unblock Jan 2013 #53
i have already told you why as have others. as i said to another poster, .... i will not roll my seabeyond Jan 2013 #58
Are you a feminist? ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #34
No they can't because they are not women. They can be supportive though.... Little Star Jan 2013 #15
Thanks for posting that. redqueen Jan 2013 #27
Thank you, you were the one who originally brought that to... Little Star Jan 2013 #42
I don't have to have first hand knowledge to have a good idea about something. Deep13 Jan 2013 #279
This is where I am at too gollygee Jan 2013 #20
and i think another thing a man has to be honest about, and some women also. are they feminists? seabeyond Jan 2013 #24
Well by "rights" I don't mean just legislative rights gollygee Jan 2013 #26
how does terminology help? now you can object to male jerks calling themselves "feminist allies". unblock Jan 2013 #29
Separatist feminism means no socializing with men. redqueen Jan 2013 #30
i don't disagree that there are different concepts involved. unblock Jan 2013 #41
Nope, not now and not ever. MuseRider Jan 2013 #31
you are not living the life of a woman. You are therefore an ally. seabeyond Jan 2013 #35
Exhausting is right. MuseRider Jan 2013 #37
I think there are well meaning men who try to use the label ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #32
I think excluding people based on sex might not be the best approach jeff47 Jan 2013 #39
what is a man being excluded from but the title of woman. he is not excluded from the cause seabeyond Jan 2013 #40
You answered your own question. jeff47 Jan 2013 #43
you need the title? why? yes, men are excluded from being a woman. that is an issue for you? seabeyond Jan 2013 #45
No, I don't need anything. jeff47 Jan 2013 #56
imo, wrong. it is a WOMAN movement. it is not about man/woman. it is ALL about women. seabeyond Jan 2013 #59
Am I a lesser person, because I am an LGBT rights ally and not LGBT? boston bean Jan 2013 #46
LGBT is identity, such as calling yourself a woman. jeff47 Jan 2013 #50
It is not exclusionary. Feminism is a womens movement. boston bean Jan 2013 #51
The movement doesn't require a particular gender by it's supporters jeff47 Jan 2013 #54
do you get that all of a sudden the feminist moved from womens rights to ALL peoples rights? seabeyond Jan 2013 #60
So men must be excluded then? jeff47 Jan 2013 #69
This is the exact problem gollygee Jan 2013 #101
I'm not. I'm asking why converting feminist to a discriminatory term is necessary to do so. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #141
I think the term is misused in many cases gollygee Jan 2013 #252
No one is excluding you. We welcome you as an ally. Thank you for being an ally! boston bean Jan 2013 #44
The fact that "ally" must be added is exclusionary jeff47 Jan 2013 #47
"I'm not in any position to dictate terminology or anything." correct. you are not in the position seabeyond Jan 2013 #48
No, what's bothering me is we're repeating the same problems we caused by having men and women jeff47 Jan 2013 #52
Ah no. Feminism is a womens movement. boston bean Jan 2013 #55
Why do you have to listen to such men? jeff47 Jan 2013 #72
Thank you for you direction. Have a good night. boston bean Jan 2013 #75
Why, exactly, is that "direction"? jeff47 Jan 2013 #78
i do not agree. and i am sorry that this is your perception. what i have found is in order to seabeyond Jan 2013 #57
I suppose a large part of the difference of opinion jeff47 Jan 2013 #74
Hi Jeff.... Maybe part of what you have missed can be filled in by reading bettyellen Jan 2013 #97
fella below? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #99
I'm not going to try and educate you. It's clear you were never an ally. bettyellen Jan 2013 #102
So you would rather make baseless personal claims than engage in a discussion about the topic? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #103
Except that doesn't actually answer my question jeff47 Jan 2013 #138
Because its s waste of time trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff? bettyellen Jan 2013 #166
Wouldn't they just ignore the woman-only rule? jeff47 Jan 2013 #187
I can't agree that men will ever fully understand bettyellen Jan 2013 #201
We seem to be using slightly different words to mean the same thing. jeff47 Jan 2013 #208
How do you suggest dealing with them? bettyellen Jan 2013 #212
They weren't talking about trolls jeff47 Jan 2013 #219
no. not only trolls. men. that mean well. that support womens rights, and think seabeyond Jan 2013 #224
Well, I guess I'll try asking again jeff47 Jan 2013 #259
Neo liberals? Third way dems? Centrists? redqueen Jan 2013 #260
And they gave themselves different names to indicate they aren't liberals. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #270
neo liberals means not liberals? redqueen Jan 2013 #274
it is the men that i have experience that claim to be feminist. i do not "let" them do shit. and i seabeyond Jan 2013 #263
And didn't you do this regardless of the gender restriction of feminist? jeff47 Jan 2013 #271
not a tough one. none of us in here really give a shit. MEN keep starting OPs claiming seabeyond Jan 2013 #278
oh it's a mix with trolls in there, but sometimes it's hard to tell. mostly it's guys who have a bettyellen Jan 2013 #238
Envision these same guys going into the AA group, or the LGBT group, Sheldon Cooper Jan 2013 #245
the chuckle is, it shows how instilled in patriarchy we are, and exactly what the issue is about seabeyond Jan 2013 #249
The longer you are actively involved with feminism, the more glaringly obvious it is. redqueen Jan 2013 #255
And its divisive NoOneMan Jan 2013 #62
then divisive we stand. does that mean you will not support womens rights? nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #64
Why does it matter what I think? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #67
It doesn't !! You've discredited yourself so thoroughly that bettyellen Jan 2013 #206
I don't see any exclusion here. Dash87 Jan 2013 #210
If a man strategizes and discusses the movement with women, he's an ally NoOneMan Jan 2013 #61
no fuckin way. lol. if men are not a part of the womans movement then women are being sexist. seabeyond Jan 2013 #63
Feminism isn't exclusively a women's movement NoOneMan Jan 2013 #66
"even those who are anatomically unsatisfying to you." tell man what he doesnt want to hear, and he seabeyond Jan 2013 #68
Straw men are tired and old NoOneMan Jan 2013 #70
Are you a feminist? ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #77
I have a penis NoOneMan Jan 2013 #79
I suppose you No One Man speaks for the entire feminsit movement, right? boston bean Jan 2013 #81
Did I suggest that? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #84
No one is excluding you from anything. boston bean Jan 2013 #80
"is that women don't garner the same respect" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #82
no, not sexist. I advocate for one god damned place where women boston bean Jan 2013 #120
Listen... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #125
Listen, it is sexist for a man to believe he knows what is best for the wimmin folk. boston bean Jan 2013 #126
I agree! NoOneMan Jan 2013 #131
Many are allies. boston bean Jan 2013 #132
the problem is you want this to be about men. it is NOT. it isnt about you. nothing to do with seabeyond Jan 2013 #129
... and in both these discussions, it is so clearly demonstrated... redqueen Jan 2013 #65
Actually ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #71
To be blunt, I'm only here because this thread showed up on the greatest page jeff47 Jan 2013 #76
Ok ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #83
So to sum up jeff47 Jan 2013 #145
In not on DU all the time, but I do chime in for support... Deep13 Jan 2013 #281
No, I'm insisting on promoting women's agency and equality. Deep13 Jan 2013 #280
This post is absolutely Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #73
Are women who don't want you to tell them what to focus on, protest, talk about, etc..... Swamp Lover Jan 2013 #85
that is a very huge issue and topic. and i would imagine that if we women addressed it seriously, seabeyond Jan 2013 #86
"not a single issue that women have brought up to the men" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #88
Dude, this is just one thread ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #89
Ah, thats right. Penis-havers aren't allowed to add their voices to any feminist issue NoOneMan Jan 2013 #90
except no one has said that. opposite of what you state. why ignore what is being said to make seabeyond Jan 2013 #92
I've listened to the argument and weighed it NoOneMan Jan 2013 #94
What are you talking about? ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #93
cooking dinner right now and then as a family we will sit together and enjoy each others company. seabeyond Jan 2013 #91
"Do you want to talk about important issues like..." "or just..." redqueen Jan 2013 #95
Oh, so excluding penis-havers is a very important issue to the feminists movement? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #96
Penis- havers. Huh ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #98
How is that a straw man? My biological features, or my chromosonal arrangement exclude me... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #100
yes. it excludes you from having an understanding of a womans experience. why is that hard? or seabeyond Jan 2013 #104
Of course I can't understand the woman's experience fully! NoOneMan Jan 2013 #108
do you believe and repel the patriarchy, the white male privilege. simple question. seabeyond Jan 2013 #118
Not entirely simple NoOneMan Jan 2013 #146
thank you. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #148
in other words, he doesn't really see that women alone have issues to fight for. boston bean Jan 2013 #164
yes. what i have help shown me that men are not feminist. the movement gets turned to ALL people seabeyond Jan 2013 #169
I see a self-affirming echo chamber forming NoOneMan Jan 2013 #174
Another straw man? Why? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #173
It makes us a group that fights for the issues that affect women. boston bean Jan 2013 #175
Not a bit. I agree NoOneMan Jan 2013 #180
I am an ally to many movements. boston bean Jan 2013 #181
Personally.... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #190
I had to stop at your 4th sentence, because you called me a TROLL boston bean Jan 2013 #195
If I could better describe what this thread was, I would NoOneMan Jan 2013 #199
"it excludes you from having an understanding of a womans experience." tama Jan 2013 #225
And some of them, like you, couldn't even be characterised as supporters. bettyellen Jan 2013 #106
Please don't tell me what I am here to do based on random, self-affirming guessing NoOneMan Jan 2013 #109
You showed your hand, fella. There's absolutely nothing in your posts bettyellen Jan 2013 #114
To be honest... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #116
wow, you can't even bring yourself to be an ally to feminists. boston bean Jan 2013 #117
and that would be the obvious in our face that men pretend is not happening. and we are suppose to seabeyond Jan 2013 #119
Why the insulting straw men? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #121
How would you know what would matter, when you haven't said it. boston bean Jan 2013 #122
I've said... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #128
honey trap... nice tell there... good night. boston bean Jan 2013 #130
Yes, you use them to catch flies or whatever else NoOneMan Jan 2013 #134
I set up nothing. I made a post. boston bean Jan 2013 #135
Right NoOneMan Jan 2013 #139
now, you are calling me a toll that set up a honey trap... boston bean Jan 2013 #143
you enchanting, mysterious, devious, witch. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #144
"Yes, I'm an evil woman" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #147
Well, I am a woman. You said I was a troll setting up a honey trap. boston bean Jan 2013 #150
It doesn't take special woman powers NoOneMan Jan 2013 #154
so, we are not acting nice enough, feminine enough, to gain your agreement with us wimminz. seabeyond Jan 2013 #136
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #140
i betcha hysterical and emotional also. but, when yo absolutely do not listen to what is being said seabeyond Jan 2013 #142
Yeah, well, I've already been called a troll and an enemy to feminism NoOneMan Jan 2013 #149
It is a waste of time for you to assert your offended sensibilities bettyellen Jan 2013 #124
"And history tells us, of you're stuck on this little point" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #137
No, it's an observation about YOU, based on your whiney bettyellen Jan 2013 #172
What do you know about feminism? ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #107
Snark? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Jan 2013 #110
Nope ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #87
I wish this had never become such a polarizing issue Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #105
I wish women weren't second class citizens. boston bean Jan 2013 #115
because you cannot have ownership of the womens movement it places you in 2nd class status? seabeyond Jan 2013 #123
Imagine my tepid enthusiasm. Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #205
do you not have wives, daughters, mothers, sisters, nieces and friends? that is not enough skin in seabeyond Jan 2013 #209
spot fucking on! bettyellen Jan 2013 #239
They are all women - they belong to the 1st class membership group Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #265
" not rely on male support" we have said repeatedly we need mens support. so i ask, why pretend seabeyond Jan 2013 #266
If you are speaking to a women audience, then I bow out Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #267
so, regardless of what the woman says, you will ignore them and interpret it to your advantage, seabeyond Jan 2013 #268
"We call the shots about your movement or we won't help" gollygee Jan 2013 #269
Message deleted by the DU Administrators TheRedJackal Jan 2013 #273
who are you jack? which of the 4 or 5 misogynist just kicked off are you? nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #275
anyone who says this.... never was "focusing their energies" on feminism, LOL. bettyellen Jan 2013 #241
Teabagger purity test. I get it Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #264
actually you don't. you keep claiming Sea and I both said that we did not, so dishonest of you. bettyellen Jan 2013 #286
I will take allies DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #111
of course that's fair. However, when a white woman begins telling latinos boston bean Jan 2013 #113
I don't know gollygee Jan 2013 #151
"it's OK for men to take charge of a movement that is all about women" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #158
What does "leadership" mean to you? gollygee Jan 2013 #159
I'm not part of that thread NoOneMan Jan 2013 #163
A couple of things: gollygee Jan 2013 #167
True NoOneMan Jan 2013 #184
No, I don't think anyone minds men giving an opinion gollygee Jan 2013 #191
Thanks for your opinion NoOneMan Jan 2013 #197
I used allies DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #186
my GOD don, that is so fuckin' easy. and so right on and true. and the men that pretend this is seabeyond Jan 2013 #133
let me be really clear, and even agressive in saying this to the men in this forum. the feminist seabeyond Jan 2013 #127
This thread validates an inability to debate the merits of an argument NoOneMan Jan 2013 #152
it is because you refuse to see or listen to the womens opinion on a womans movement and ONLY look seabeyond Jan 2013 #153
Thats the premise that is unsubstantiated! NoOneMan Jan 2013 #157
again... women have time and time again, explained in this thread the issue we deal with and seabeyond Jan 2013 #160
Enjoy your night NoOneMan Jan 2013 #165
i am sure. and thank you. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #171
You think anyone here thinks you are genuine in your "concerns"? HA bettyellen Jan 2013 #236
"Coddling men's ego" is a rather disgustingly male-hating phrase. Bonobo Jan 2013 #168
yes. coddle mens ego. and sometime we can DISCUSS this. and yes, my boys not only understand seabeyond Jan 2013 #176
of if they are constantly on the defensive. Which would boston bean Jan 2013 #178
Being defensive at the charge that men are little boys who need to be coddled. Bonobo Jan 2013 #182
I don't know what to say to someone who takes an observation boston bean Jan 2013 #192
An "observation" or an "offensive stereotype"? Bonobo Jan 2013 #196
It's not an offensive stereotype. boston bean Jan 2013 #198
That's not what Seabeyond was referring to. Bonobo Jan 2013 #200
So, it is about the men, right? boston bean Jan 2013 #220
No, IT is not if by IT you mean the larger issue of women's rights. Bonobo Jan 2013 #223
We just agreed, I thought, that it is pretty much a fact boston bean Jan 2013 #229
Outstanding. MuseRider Jan 2013 #189
Asking questions is not telling you what to do. jeff47 Jan 2013 #202
You can call people whatever you want, but... Bonobo Jan 2013 #155
Did my post say something different than that? boston bean Jan 2013 #156
Well yes. Bonobo Jan 2013 #161
I myself think that men who are supportive of feminism are allies. boston bean Jan 2013 #162
We have reached agreement. Bonobo Jan 2013 #170
yep, and it was a worthy topic for discussion. boston bean Jan 2013 #177
lmfao... it really is, that easy, lol. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #179
"I am a purple dragon with pink horns." Dash87 Jan 2013 #207
That argument cuts both ways. Bonobo Jan 2013 #211
The problem with that statement, is that being the President is a formal title. Dash87 Jan 2013 #214
Like I said, your argument cuts both ways. Bonobo Jan 2013 #218
You have anything better to do than make things up in your own mind boston bean Jan 2013 #248
That is grounds for banning from the group in my opinion. JTFrog Jan 2013 #250
'feeling the heavy hand of the patriarchy everywhere' seabeyond Jan 2013 #251
why cant women OWN, yes, i mean OWN the womens movement. is it too much to demand. not seabeyond Jan 2013 #183
What about men who think that only women should decide women's issues? liberal N proud Jan 2013 #185
again, when talking about black or gay issues, do you inject knowing better as a white or hetero? seabeyond Jan 2013 #188
Nope, those groups are better suited to know what is right. liberal N proud Jan 2013 #193
men, women, all other points in the spectrum DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #194
Well I will tell you this and I know it may get some upset. I think feminists helped southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #203
An unfortunate facet of social activism may be... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #217
Yes your right that there are lots of different ways to see the world. I guess people see it from southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #242
so, the only things you post are complaints about feminism, LOL bettyellen Jan 2013 #254
and that has nothing to do with this thread, but thank you. bettyellen Jan 2013 #240
Excuse me but who died and left you queen bee? I was just making a comment. Get over it. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #243
"Well I will tell you this and I know it may get some upset." JTFrog Jan 2013 #246
Yep. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #258
I guess "all feminist threads look alike" to you? bettyellen Jan 2013 #253
That is one reason I hate getting on these threads. People get so out of shape if you southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #257
Especially when you make a comment with the intent of getting people out of shape. JTFrog Jan 2013 #261
This message was self-deleted by its author southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #262
apology accepted, 100%. thanks! bettyellen Jan 2013 #284
How much of workers rights is in the purview of feminism? redqueen Jan 2013 #244
I find the concept of men demanding to be recognized as a feminist by women... interesting. Dash87 Jan 2013 #204
so disappointing sigmasix Jan 2013 #213
women have been enduring sexism/misogyny forever. how cavalierly you throw it back at women, seabeyond Jan 2013 #215
Since a lot of people seem to not understand the concept here, Dash87 Jan 2013 #216
right... sigmasix Jan 2013 #221
That's a false equivalency. Dash87 Jan 2013 #222
so you've already decided sigmasix Jan 2013 #287
really? rationalist? like that is not fuckin' in our face obvious? geeez. fail. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #226
We are talking specifically about a women's movement gollygee Jan 2013 #256
My women's studies professor says there are different types of feminism, ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #227
It depends on if your professor is male or female NoOneMan Jan 2013 #228
She is a woman. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #230
Otherwise your professor would be dictating to women what they must think NoOneMan Jan 2013 #231
OK. I'm a guy, but I have to write papers on feminism some semesters, ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #232
yes i think feminisms could be accurate and not. seabeyond Jan 2013 #235
I'd be honored to be called a feminist ally. JustJoe Jan 2013 #233
that was awesomely insightful, and seabeyond Jan 2013 #234
Yep. redqueen Jan 2013 #237
Being an ally is an awesome thing. MuseRider Jan 2013 #247
Message deleted by the DU Administrators TheRedJackal Jan 2013 #272
Well that's up to you... Deep13 Jan 2013 #276
good for you. then, being the feminist you will have also understand that there are MANY different seabeyond Jan 2013 #282
thanks, and yes, one can't essentialize a large and diverse group of humans. nt Deep13 Jan 2013 #283
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