2016 Postmortem

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts) Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:38 PM Sep 2015

145

Let's Compare Senator Sanders and H. Clinton on some key issues. [View all]

Last edited Tue Sep 1, 2015, 11:56 PM - Edit history (1)

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Let's Compare Senator Sanders and H. Clinton on some key issues. [View all] rhett o rick Sep 2015 OP

He voted for the Afghanistan war. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #1

So otherwise you agree with the poster? nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #2

She has her votes I disagree with but my point is he supported war. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #3

Do you think that Sen Sanders is too progressive? nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #4

I would have no problem supporting him if he was the nominee. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #5

That is precisely how I feel about Hillary Clinton. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #27

Funny Duckhunter935 Sep 2015 #37

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #79

She has higher favorable numbers thann the Republicans. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #84

So does a pile of...oh, never mind...as you were n/t ejbr Sep 2015 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin Sep 2015 #86

ANYONE has higher favorable numbers than the RepubliCONs. RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #88

And? hrmjustin Sep 2015 #91

Just sayin' n/t RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #93

And... kenfrequed Sep 2015 #115

That would be my question. RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #170

First time I've ever imagined whale feces. senz Sep 2015 #161

It's good for fertilizing an Octopus's Garden klook Sep 2015 #169

Perfect likeness of Ringo. (Not whale feces, the cartoon.) senz Sep 2015 #175

... senz Sep 2015 #227

Actually, you did reply to my post. klook Sep 2015 #246

True. But relying mainly on your opponents' stupididy is not good strategy n/t eridani Sep 2015 #116

And? merrily Sep 2015 #182

Wait a minute there. RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #87

I don't think so. You mistake me for someone else. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #90

Ok my bad. n/t RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #94

Not the votes listed. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #6

He still voted for it. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #8

Bernie's never claimed to be a pacifist. Nope. 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #9

If he was a pacifist who swore off all military action, always, they'd try to clobber him with that. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #18

Ok but my point is he voted for war. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #20

He voted to use US forces to capture/kill the 911 perps, yes 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #26

i remember when Obama "escalated" in Afghanistan treestar Sep 2015 #129

Going in initially & timely to get 911 perps, is not the same as escalating perpetual war 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #168

And what's the point of your point? Scootaloo Sep 2015 #65

He is responsible for his votes like she is. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #66

How do you hold her responsible for her war voteS, plural, and her advocacy for the Iraq War? merrily Sep 2015 #184

No, he voted for ONE war. And that objection is a HOOT coming from a supporter of Hillary. merrily Sep 2015 #183

I would assume from your posts that you didn't support going into Afghanistan. Am I right? A Simple Game Sep 2015 #221

Which would be relevant to the OP if it were part of it, but it's not. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #16

War is war and they are responsible for their votes. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #21

War is war? So vietnam=WWII=Afghanistan=Iraq? Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #23

Lets put your insult aside and say the dead in Afghanistan would not see the distinction. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #28

Its an insult to say that I know you're smarter than the argument you seem to be putting forth? Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #36

He will be questioned on his vote like she will. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #40

Yeah, but I think the IWR is widely recognized to be a far worse call than the Afghanistan vote. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #57

Not to the dead but I get your point. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #59

now, dont drag bob and phil into this. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #67

Let Phil sing! zappaman Sep 2015 #120

Actually, as good as the FTW shows were, I do think some fundamental flaws in that old proposal Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #122

I couldn't agree more. zappaman Sep 2015 #155

Oh, please, Neither would civilian dead in any war. There WAS a distinction between merrily Sep 2015 #185

Trivial compared to the wars he voted against. Ken Burch Sep 2015 #17

I am sure the dead in Afghanistan don't think it was trivial. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #22

This line of attack is weak, Justin. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #24

I will warren. Cheers. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #31

It really isn't treestar Sep 2015 #131

Seriously, what is it with all the false equivalencies? merrily Sep 2015 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Sep 2015 #25

??? Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #30

Nonsensical. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #32

Uh, you got the flow of time backwards. jeff47 Sep 2015 #156

While we are on the subject of "word choices" ... staggerleem Sep 2015 #206

He also voted to fund all those wars he supposedly voted against. MADem Sep 2015 #77

They like to neglect that fact. Very dishonest on there part. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #81

and notice when he said he would use drones, that's suddenly OK treestar Sep 2015 #132

IOKIYB, I guess! Situational outrage is en vogue I suppose...! nt MADem Sep 2015 #137

But were the posts from the same people? (n/t) thesquanderer Sep 2015 #144

Hard to say treestar Sep 2015 #146

Of course he did. He supports American soldiers who were sent on foreign adventures by neocons and Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #186

Yes, and he supports the American Military Industrial Complex in the form of MADem Sep 2015 #209

Funny, I didn't know troops were pork. RichVRichV Sep 2015 #210

Troops ARE pork to congressmen. MADem Sep 2015 #214

So does every citizen. RichVRichV Sep 2015 #217

Perhaps it's not clear to you, but those things that servicemembers get are called ORDERS. MADem Sep 2015 #219

I'm not sure where you're going with those first two paragraphs. RichVRichV Sep 2015 #224

The economic benefit that a base offers a region has to do with PERSONNEL and JOBS. MADem Sep 2015 #229

Every soldier that goes to a base somewhere in the country is leaving another area of the country. RichVRichV Sep 2015 #253

Most of them ENTER the military from depressed economies. MADem Sep 2015 #254

Should we never declare war? MannyGoldstein Sep 2015 #75

I never said that. My point is Sanders supporters like to glaze over the vote. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #76

Are you conflating the invasion of Afghanistan in 2002 with the Afghanistan surge Admiral Loinpresser Sep 2015 #134

The point is that the other war votes far outweigh it. Ken Burch Sep 2015 #173

FAR more telling: how many times Hillary voted FOR wars and surges. merrily Sep 2015 #190

The minute you see cherry-picking, it makes one suspicious of the veracity and the intent. MADem Sep 2015 #220

Many persons did support war with Afghanistan… MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #97

I don't know why they voted for it. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #99

From FeeltheBern.org: Iraq War Spending Bills to Aid Veterans and Vermonters think Sep 2015 #103

That is all nice and good but he still voted to fund the war. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #104

Yes it is good to take care of veterans, make sure emergency funding got passed for Katrina victims, think Sep 2015 #109

Interesting. Hillary did not meniton one of the major reasons that Bernie voted against JDPriestly Sep 2015 #172

That's ugly. Once troops are put in harm's way, voting against funding is reprehensible. merrily Sep 2015 #192

Exactly RichVRichV Sep 2015 #211

And he loves drones now. Funny how he'll vote to help veterans in HIS state, but screw those MADem Sep 2015 #248

You have that wrong. He did not in the Senate. However Hillary Clinton did... MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #106

Try reading instead of insulting. You might learn something. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #107

Jeebus, you don't even see your error with this, do you? MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #118

No, voting to go to war in Afghanistan does not equal supporting war. Typical. merrily Sep 2015 #180

Afghanistan was where OBL was hiding out, supposedly; until 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #11

And he voted for the war. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #19

Please see 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #29

Yet that war continues. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #34

OK, but not because of Bernie. Obama's the POTUS who's kept troops there. -nt- 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #38

Yet he bares responsibility with everyone else who voted for it. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #39

Ok, that's true as far as it goes 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #41

The Iraq War vote matters more. Ken Burch Sep 2015 #33

The dead in Afghanistan care about both of their votes. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #35

The problem with Hillary supporters is trying to make Sanders supporter the issue 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #45

Is that what you think I am doing? hrmjustin Sep 2015 #46

I have no idea what you are doing. Do you? 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #52

I already told you. You have a pleasant evening. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #54

Same to you. Peace out. -nt- 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #56

I don't like us being in Afghanistan, either. Ken Burch Sep 2015 #70

Justin.... pinebox Sep 2015 #178

I don't want a president that would never go to war no matter what. TheFarseer Sep 2015 #60

My point is he is responsible for his votes just like HRC is. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #64

He sure is. And he showed good judgement in this vote, as he most typically does LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #151

All but one member of Congress voted with Bernie on that defense resolution. senz Sep 2015 #166

He thought, like most of us did, that we were going to go in there, get Bin Laden and bring him to PatrickforO Sep 2015 #42

But he bares responsibility for his vote. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #43

Sure he does. But the fact remains that he voted AGAINST three wars and for one. What this tells me PatrickforO Sep 2015 #96

He also voted to fund the Iraq war I believe. Why? hrmjustin Sep 2015 #98

Are you seriously claiming starving our troops is a good plan? jeff47 Sep 2015 #159

Wait a minute kenfrequed Sep 2015 #117

99.8% of Congress did jfern Sep 2015 #47

Bernie also just proposed a war tax on millionaires... Where does Hillary stand on that? cascadiance Sep 2015 #51

I would support it. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #53

Sorry that there is not the perfect candidate RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #89

Vote for whoever you want. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #92

Even Ron Paul voted for that one Reter Sep 2015 #100

Still responsible for his vote. hrmjustin Sep 2015 #101

Along with everyone else in Congress (but one). Big deal. senz Sep 2015 #167

H J Res 64 - 9/14/2001 - authorized DEFENSE against 9/11 attackers. senz Sep 2015 #158

We were attacked. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #165

He voted against the invasion of Iraq. Afghanistan is totally distinguishable. merrily Sep 2015 #177

Facts are stubborn things, aren't they rhett! hifiguy Sep 2015 #7

Bernie Rocks! peacebird Sep 2015 #10

It is essential that a presidential candidate has an opinion on an issue Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2015 #12

Death Penalty, Minimum Wage, Social Security... HappyPlace Sep 2015 #13

OMG all the hate OMG L0oniX Sep 2015 #14

It is literally a "Hate Chart" filled with "Crazy Hate Facts"! HDS! HDS! It's an "HDS Chart"! nt Bonobo Sep 2015 #15

It makes it rather obvious which one is the most progressive and anti-war. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #44

I think you should research where some of these "ratings" or narratives come from.... George II Sep 2015 #48

What would those be? madokie Sep 2015 #50

There are two ratings listed, one from NARAL and one from the ACLU. Which do you disagree with? LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #62

A whole lot of that list is false or inaccurate. George II Sep 2015 #74

So please enlighten us RoccoR5955 Sep 2015 #95

I would think it incumbent on the person who posted this to provide background... George II Sep 2015 #102

There are many, many threads here that get into detail as to what Sen Sanders rhett o rick Sep 2015 #110

Simple - "Clinton supporters" don't post in those threads..... George II Sep 2015 #114

Once again you are way wrong. There are lots and lots of issue related threads in GD: P. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #157

Links, like facts, are irrelevant. Only the tired spin matters. merrily Sep 2015 #198

They are hoping that if they fling enough poo at the wall, some will stick. Anything to avoid rhett o rick Sep 2015 #203

Just smile and nod, I guess. merrily Sep 2015 #205

So, random claims of inaccuracy without any proof? OK LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #149

in the words of Christopher Hitchens hifiguy Sep 2015 #264

I like this breakdown better MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #49

Are you a Bernie supporter? azmom Sep 2015 #55

I cannot support MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #72

re: whether socialism can coexist in a capitalist system thesquanderer Sep 2015 #143

You mean the programs MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #163

Democratic Socialism already does coexist with our capitalist system Z_California Sep 2015 #154

Wow MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #162

Oh sweet Jesus! Dawgs Sep 2015 #191

Never put much MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #202

NO! Democratic Socialism is about ... staggerleem Sep 2015 #208

Actually, he's a candidate who believes social programs like Medicare for All can improve capitalism merrily Sep 2015 #196

Social Programs that can MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #201

We get that you don't like capitalism but what do you support? Socialism? nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #204

Since his preferred source is WSWS Z_California Sep 2015 #235

It's my opinion that both Karl Marx and Ayn Rand suffered from a similar dislusion. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #240

Extremely enlightening article - perhaps every Sanders supporter should read it. George II Sep 2015 #71

I don't think that would be helpful MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #78

I'm afraid you're correct. George II Sep 2015 #82

Lines have been drawn. The 1% on one side and the 99% on the other. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #112

Very simplistic MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #119

Maybe not. But who else is even bringing up any issues that matter? mhatrw Sep 2015 #121

VEry interesting outlook. I don't say you are wrong. But we must do something. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #153

. merrily Sep 2015 #200

Why? To convince us Sanders is not as far left as his would be detractors claim? merrily Sep 2015 #197

Your article omits this as part of Sanders' Mayoral record. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #124

They omitted more, but your article points out an obvious... MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #125

Your last paragraph is contradictory. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #126

Update to my previous post, I understand and agree with your points. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #176

Hey, Uncle Joe! MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #245

"If an institution provides virtually no free care to the poor, klook Sep 2015 #171

It's not my article MyNameGoesHere Sep 2015 #258

Look I'm a Bernie supporter but the Gay Marriage one is wrong... Agschmid Sep 2015 #58

Hillary was opposed to gay marriage until March 2013 LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #63

And even last year thought it should be up to the states jfern Sep 2015 #105

Well, at least back to 96, when he voted against DOMA thesquanderer Sep 2015 #138

sanders first support out loud of marriage equality was 2009. because he was silent, and never seabeyond Sep 2015 #145

FALSE. And, even if true, he was better on this issue than Hillary, on this issue and most other merrily Sep 2015 #193

no it isnt false. but really, cute. yell false and then, even if true. ha ha seabeyond Sep 2015 #223

Bullshit walks. Ha ha merrily Sep 2015 #228

gay rights. not marriage equality. find one quote from him on marriage equality before 2009. 1 quote seabeyond Sep 2015 #231

Full equality is full equality. If it's good enough for gay publications, it's good enough for me. merrily Sep 2015 #232

ONE mention of marriage equality before 2009. when you cant find it you might ask yourself why. seabeyond Sep 2015 #233

What part of voting against DOMA in 1996 do you not get? What part of full equality do you not get? merrily Sep 2015 #234

Here: beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #236

His votes count but keep pretending they don't, it speaks volumes about what really matters to you. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #237

Because voting against banning same sex marriage PROVES he didn't support marriage equality!!! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #230

He called for equal rights in the 80s. That includes marriage jeff47 Sep 2015 #160

It doesn't matter if marriage was on the table or not. Just because there is Zorra Sep 2015 #199

***THIS***THIS***THIS*** beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #226

Just a few of the many reasons jschurchin Sep 2015 #61

It is an intersting dichotomy LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #68

Too true. Personality politics. nt. Duppers Sep 2015 #80

worse than "so what", is the newest reply "superdelegates" n/t MoveIt Sep 2015 #113

I say "so what" for a few reasons. DanTex Sep 2015 #128

re: "Hillary can beat the GOP in the GE, and Bernie can't." thesquanderer Sep 2015 #135

All of them outside of the Northeast and maybe the West Coast. DanTex Sep 2015 #136

"too left for most of the country" isn't an issue thesquanderer Sep 2015 #141

If working people in red states can hear him, they might wake up. senz Sep 2015 #179

Actually, Bernie can beat the GOP in the GE, and Hillary can't LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #150

Crystal Clear Choice. NowSam Sep 2015 #69

LOLOLOLOLOL SoapBox Sep 2015 #73

Seeing 21/123 replies here, so I know where you're coming from. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2015 #127

... SoapBox Sep 2015 #148

K & R Duppers Sep 2015 #83

Still can't wait for the debates. lonestarnot Sep 2015 #108

Ridiculous!!! Bonobo Sep 2015 #111

Good point. "I like Bernie but....... rhett o rick Sep 2015 #239

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #123

Gee, another cherry-picked misleading piece of anti-Hillary propaganda. DanTex Sep 2015 #130

Oh I thought Bernie and Hillary were very similar? ibegurpard Sep 2015 #140

They are. On most issues they agree, and where Bernie is further left, his plans don't stand DanTex Sep 2015 #142

But there ARE differences, and they DO matter. senz Sep 2015 #164

Sure, but these cherry-picked charts are misleading. DanTex Sep 2015 #213

Well it shows who's a liberal democrat and who's an authoritarian corporatist. senz Sep 2015 #244

Hillary is no more of an "authoritarian corporatist" than Bernie is a gun nut. DanTex Sep 2015 #249

She's pro-war, pro-patriot act, pro-TPP & NAFTA, anti-wall street regulation senz Sep 2015 #257

LOL. "From the OP chart". Yeah, if you make decisions based on propaganda charts, DanTex Sep 2015 #259

Address the facts (the content) not the format, not the source. Her own words, her own votes. senz Sep 2015 #260

You claim to care about issues, but then you cite some nonsense chart in order to criticize Hillary. DanTex Sep 2015 #261

Yes, character also matters for me. senz Sep 2015 #262

My enthusiasm is about putting a Dem in the White House. DanTex Sep 2015 #263

It's impossible to be ok with Glass-Steagall repeal and still claim to support financial reform. Ken Burch Sep 2015 #174

I suppose Paul Krugman doesn't know what he's talking about then. DanTex Sep 2015 #189

" Climate change is much broader than a carbon tax." Wow is that Clinton's official rhett o rick Sep 2015 #207

Umm, no, that's just one sentence that I wrote. DanTex Sep 2015 #212

Thank you. You don't how hard it is to get anyone to defend Clinton's support for fracking. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #215

You're welcome. DanTex Sep 2015 #218

Fracking is destroying billions of gallons of our precious drinking water yet H. Clinton and Chevron rhett o rick Sep 2015 #256

And yet Hillary folk tell us they are virtually identical on most votes... But she is more electable peacebird Sep 2015 #133

Well they are obviously the same! ibegurpard Sep 2015 #139

Well, his votes are principled, well thought-out, and not pandering. senz Sep 2015 #181

K&R raouldukelives Sep 2015 #147

This should be on billboards all over the country K&R! n/t whatchamacallit Sep 2015 #152

Rhett, I read that she did not publicly endorse equal marriage until 2013. merrily Sep 2015 #188

Hillary doesn't get a free pass on Snowden's revelations...BUT cheapdate Sep 2015 #194

THANKS A LOT Rhett. mylye2222 Sep 2015 #195

Bernie has never made any progress on any of those issues though. moobu2 Sep 2015 #216

Most Senators/Congressmen don't "make progress" with their votes. senz Sep 2015 #243

Iraq War Vote colsohlibgal Sep 2015 #222

I truly do not understand supporting Hillary marym625 Sep 2015 #225

I believe it's an authoritarian problem. Many Americans were raised to be good little authoritarians rhett o rick Sep 2015 #242

Thank dog I had my parents! marym625 Sep 2015 #247

DU is full of phonies. "Socialists" for Hillary, Rightwinger "progressives", Drug Warriors named Romulox Sep 2015 #251

It's just a matter of time IMO. These are large scale differences, even libdem4life Sep 2015 #238

We know both candidates very well. Clinton hiding isn't going to say her. We rhett o rick Sep 2015 #252

I only find I disagree with Bernie on Snowden, I can deal with that...... 4bucksagallon Sep 2015 #241

Sure, but you neglect one crucial fact: Sanders supporters are poopie heads!!! (sarcasm) Vattel Sep 2015 #250

Agreed with the list. kenfrequed Sep 2015 #255