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Showing Original Post only (View all)Bernie Supporters - Please read my post [View all]
Heyo!! It's me again. I wrote a post this morning that I felt needed to be read by supporters of Bernie. I wrote it late in a thread and I worry that it will be lost in the GD-P shuffle.
Please read the whole thing and think it over for a bit, I'd really appreciate it if you will think over what I wrote and take it into consideration.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #231)Sun Aug 2, 2015, 05:28 AM
Star Member bravenak (14,664 posts)
354. I actually appreciate the way you avoid being nasty towards Hillary. I try not to myself and I dislike her.
I usually find your posts reasonable and even if I do not agree, I can understand your policy differences with her and enjoy your positive support for Bernie. Nobody is perfect, but I do not see you as a negative supporter.
Now, I am Ideologically similar to Bernie as far as my politics go, although I find myself putting a bit more emphasis on the social justice aspect, rather than the economical. I see you as an ally in the fight for Black lives matters and appreciate that and hope that everyone can join us in our fight. You are on my side in my fight for justice, and I am on your side in your fight for economic fairness.
I do not hate Bernie or his supporters. I actually prefer Bernie and do not like Hillary. If I say things about what I think is hurting him with black voters, it is not because I want to trash him or you guys, I want you to know what I see and really am trying to help.
I want Bernie's supporters to include things that are important to black voters and place them at the top of the list of urgent business. I truly believe that the group that wins the support of black activists in movements like Black Lives Matters will win the black vote. And similarly with Latinos, the person and supporters that show the most concern, listen to hispanics in our nation and empathizes and places their concerns at the top along with economic and social justice will win their respect and votes. Minority communities are big on respect and appreciate attention paid to the issues that affect our communities specifically. We also want our vote earned and for the candidates to come to us and ask for our votes.
Bernie and his group have to spread goodwill throughout the Obama coalition. They need to steal Hillary voters. I fear that the active dislike for the man that many African Americans respect and love (honestly, we place him at the top of the list of All Time Greatest African Americans, above Martin Luther King Jr and MalcolmX, he to us is the all time greatest African American) is harming Bernie tremendously. We have an emotional connection to him, no amount of logic and policy discussions will change that. We do not like people who do not appreciate him and his accomplishments.
I say these things not to harn; but to assist. When I speak with other African Americans about the policy issues and differences between the candidates, they seem to actually PREFER Bernie's positions. But there is a lack of trust, and we find it difficult to get interested in a new (to us) candidate. We know the Clintons. We know they made terrible decisions. But when supporters beat us up with those facts, it shuts down the conversation and everyone retreats to their previously held positions. The Clintons are our default choice. The Clintons are praising Obama and that brings them enough goodwill to assuage the fears of another Welfare Reform debacle or Mass Incarceration mess. The Clintons are busy speaking on our issues and apologizing for past mistakes. I know that does not make up for the past, but when has America EVER made up for things done to black people? Never. An apology for hurting us is so damn rare that we forgive.
Now, I think we can get through this netroots debacle, but Bernie's supporters HAVE to listen to the members of the African American community and bite their tongues and figure out how to use the information we provide effectively. Life is a learning experience.
I have a few suggestions: in order to steal votes Bernie needs Obma voters. Please let people know that it is very counterproductive to trash Obama in any way really. We are so used to black leaders being trashed and hated and despised that we as a group will tune out any bad mouthing and silently hate the person speaking. It really doesn't matter if it is just about SEVERE disappointment with his policies or seeing him as too far to the right; it turns off potential black voters. Speak instead on how Bernie will defend the gains Obama made and expand upon them. It will be more effective.
Another thing is you all need to know that Black people LIKE the Clintons. Yes, they fucked up. But it seems that we are forgiving them and waiting to hear more about how Hillary will undo some of the policies and ensure that we work on the insititutional racism. Many are willing to give them a chance to fix things. It does not help Bernie AT ALL when folks talk crazy to black folks about liking the Clintons after all the damage they have done. It might help you to see this as a sign that black people can be willing to give multiple chances. This bad time with minority voters can be fixed.
I'd also suggest that his supporters might want to stop saying that economic justice and social justice are the same thing or that one brings the other. And maybe stop calling non Bernie supporters uninformed or implying that they are stupid or Hillary supporters. I get accused of supporting Hillary because I am saying these things to and about Bernie supporters. I understand that I have been a bit unkind by broadbrushing his supporters and I am sorry. I apologize for that and will try to do better. I just do not like my concern dismissed or my community or activists being disrespected or called right wing plants.
There is nothing wrong with being excited for a candidate. Or being an idealist. But it is not a winning strategy on it's own. Votes are needed to win. Bernie has the leftish progressive white liberals on his side and he has their support. He NEEDS more. Compromises will have to be made and tongues will have to be bitten to win the hearts and minds of the rest of the Democratic coalition.
Sorry about the super long post, but I just wanted to get that out there and see if anybody would take what I say seriously and help end this meme with the quickness. I do not like Bernie's supporters having the reputation of being mean, or intelligence snobs or hating black people. The only way to turn the tide is to change course. If you guys could collectively just be nice to black people and listen to us and support us in this fight for our lives and freedom; fight just as hard as you fight FOR Bernie, this problem would be a thing of the past.
Now, I know some will see this as an attack; please try your best not to do that, but to see it as a person who wants the same things you want trying to help you understand their perspective. Thank you.
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All I really see from Hillary supporters, boiled down, is Bernie cannot win so if I don't
djean111
Aug 2015
#1
I like your post, Bravenak. I wish we could have more rational discussions about
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#80
Yes, I do see that in your post. And I appreciate it. It is true that people will
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#98
I agree with what you are saying - I love President Obama - but how do we approach issues
jwirr
Aug 2015
#93
Thank you for a very deep and thought provoking OP. If you haven't already I think you
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#213
If I wasn't so busy in real life, with my daughters autism and other family issues, I would.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#308
Maybe liking me is just not for you. I'll try my BEST to survive this deadly blow.nt
bravenak
Aug 2015
#353
Bernie's successful Burlington, VT waterfront Campaign Kickoff event occurred
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#345
I was responding to 142 where you say if people perceive Bernie to be behind the curve, it's
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#352
Sanders has never said that he was the candidate of "hardwoking people, white people"
eridani
Aug 2015
#398
If you look at the response of the candidates to the issue since the protest...
stone space
Aug 2015
#284
Huh. So if Bernie campaigns more directly and effectively to AA voters, he's "selling out" and
scarletwoman
Aug 2015
#289
I'm not speaking to all black voters. I am speaking in direct response to your post.
cui bono
Aug 2015
#246
I never demanded anything. I simply stated that I thought your sig is divisive and so I wouldn't
cui bono
Aug 2015
#270
Interesting, one of the most ardent Sanders supporters had very nice and pleasant...
George II
Aug 2015
#433
I think your taking the OP the wrong way. The OPs view, rightly or wrongly is that Hillary appears
still_one
Aug 2015
#13
It is both. Bernie doesn't run his campaign in a vacuum. In the Netroots/BLM town hall, if you
still_one
Aug 2015
#28
SBS has addressed law enforcement abuses against AAs through calls for better 'community policing',
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#143
All of that and how Bernie has been addressing the needs of black Americans through
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#87
I think Bernie's doing a good job of putting the truth out there. Rumors can't stop him.
senz
Aug 2015
#196
Bravenak, I have NEVER put down Barack Obama. I defend him online and in person. ALWAYS.
senz
Aug 2015
#327
"We know the Clintons...they made terrible decisions...those facts..." < "responsiveness". eek!
jtuck004
Aug 2015
#155
The GOP invented ' Citizens United ' so they could slander Hillary, Ugly?
orpupilofnature57
Aug 2015
#341
I responded to you in the other thread, Don;t know if I should post it here or not.
Raine1967
Aug 2015
#20
Aloha brave, 1st of all, thank you for your OP..I, of course, really like this part.. you know I do!
Cha
Aug 2015
#265
Yeah. I always try to get along with her regardless. She is VERY passionate. Very.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#269
Bravenak, please read my post just below Cha's after this one of yours
passiveporcupine
Aug 2015
#379
He's running as in a dem primary because he does not want Dem's to lose
passiveporcupine
Aug 2015
#364
it's also weird so many people missed the point that you want to take AA votes FROM Hillary
carolinayellowdog
Aug 2015
#214
"she listens to what is going on and jumps right in to say the right thing." REALLY?
senz
Aug 2015
#184
The worst I've seen from supporters attacking black people online has been on Twitter, not here.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
Aug 2015
#43
Just type Twitter, or poke at one of those little bluebirds you see here and there, and
MADem
Aug 2015
#209
You should follow people who are supportive of BLM, I have been following them and
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#91
I'm still fairly new to it myself, and I'm sure I don't have it properly configured.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
Aug 2015
#210
Thank you for this post. I think open, reality based discussion is key to progress.
DLnyc
Aug 2015
#22
Bernie will strengthen on issues for black people, as he has for all through his 40 year career.
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#187
I think we Bernie supporters could also learn a lot from Obama on issues of race.
jalan48
Aug 2015
#41
I actually would like for him to step up even more. And I fully expect him to as the end of his term
jwirr
Aug 2015
#156
Yes, he's in a position to actually do something. He would be listened to by all Democrats.
jalan48
Aug 2015
#164
As someone who will wear Bernie's credentials on Election Day, if he is the nominee, I appreciate
msanthrope
Aug 2015
#56
I will not hesitate to vote for him, and I will not hesitate to work on his behalf for voter
msanthrope
Aug 2015
#60
Me too. I will do what I need to do for the nominee, regardless. I'm cool like that.nt
bravenak
Aug 2015
#63
Sorry but that's bullshit. Your response proved that it's impossible to be "nice enough" for you
Armstead
Aug 2015
#106
Are you done being nasty yet, or do you need to go on for a few more posts to prove my point?
bravenak
Aug 2015
#170
Why would I give a damn if a candidate gets into office if they are handcuffed into continuing
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#219
But only the same some that was coming anyway. If Sanders has to be Rubinesque Clintonite
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#330
This is more of an emotional appeal and a request for a change in the way things are discussed.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#332
I don't see how that works short term to somehow win the nomination without a case for running
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#423
I don't see it as an attack. Seeing some of the paternalistic sermons from my fellow Sandernists...
marble falls
Aug 2015
#67
If we don't face truth and start sticking together its going to be too late at some point. We'll ...
marble falls
Aug 2015
#115
Obama is a hard if not impossible act to follow-- which needs to be openly discussed
carolinayellowdog
Aug 2015
#72
I do not have to agree to think an opinion was expressed in a respectful manner awesomely.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#123
Interesting post, esp. how you note that people distinguish between pride in Pres. Obama's
appalachiablue
Aug 2015
#207
I've got major issues with the idea that anything Obama has done must be supported and adopted
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#85
I'm all for building on the positive but there is a lot of shut up and embrace the negative in there
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#362
It is a universal mystery that I need to keep secret or the world might explode.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#139
I'd very much like Bernie to win the nomination. That's why I hate seeing his supposed supporters
scarletwoman
Aug 2015
#198
"Go jump in a lake"... Wow.. you are so clever! How do they stand your cleverness?!
Cha
Aug 2015
#351
""Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results." unk. n/t
jtuck004
Aug 2015
#177
I enjoyed your post very much, and really appreciate the time and thought and effort you have taken
LiberalAndProud
Aug 2015
#189
You know, it IS possible to express a dissenting view without including a gratuitous insult
scarletwoman
Aug 2015
#221
Pyou don't think black folks have had to shut up about their issues and just vote for the democrat?
bravenak
Aug 2015
#226
LGBTers were berated in this fashion in the past several elections. You are deeply wrong here.
Prism
Aug 2015
#365
I'm sorry, but comparing yourselves to an oppressed community is off putting.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#369
I agree with you completely. (except for the 'good OP' part since I won't read it with that sig)
cui bono
Aug 2015
#235
I'd like to ask you a question. I know you post in the AA forum that your lean toward Bernie...
aikoaiko
Aug 2015
#206
Not to annoy, but it appears the Obamas and Hillary are not at odds in these pictures:
freshwest
Aug 2015
#453
Well, I hope the expessions in those photos are sincere. Am sure you know about "politics and
senz
Aug 2015
#455
I think an OP explaining why you like Bernie for his policies (not simply not liking HRC for her's)
aikoaiko
Aug 2015
#243
I appreciate your thoughts here. But the differences between Sanders supporters
rhett o rick
Aug 2015
#216
I don't think it will be a problem. Sen Sanders offers honesty and integrity. His
rhett o rick
Aug 2015
#285
bravenak, I like you, I don't like your sig. It's divisive. When you change it I'll read your OP.
cui bono
Aug 2015
#225
I got enough lectures on civil rights from white liberals to last a lifetime. No more.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#233
I do not dislike you. I dislike what you are saying on DU lately and your sig line, though as I said
cui bono
Aug 2015
#258
Girl..sigh* I want to appreciate your time and efforts. But I really don't understand why you bother
Number23
Aug 2015
#230
But you said those nasty things and hurt my feelings. I was wrong about you and number23 was right.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#277
That does sadden me, Really your an intelligent courageous person, but fundamental condescension,,
orpupilofnature57
Aug 2015
#333
I respect and valueD their insight, but Will exercise Free Speech without apology, sorry . Capital D
orpupilofnature57
Aug 2015
#340
No lots of other gods and goddesses here with me. And lots of peons looking up from below
Number23
Aug 2015
#371
I think the OP is spot on, and the Bernie Sanders campaign needs to SHAPE UP
cloudythescribbler
Aug 2015
#319
I am marking this so I can come back later and post a full reply, after I get back home.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#326
This primary is going to be about the harm of Neo-Liberalism, and that's where He wins .
orpupilofnature57
Aug 2015
#337
Thank you. Yes, the destruction that began with Ronald Reagan and continued through every
YOHABLO
Aug 2015
#339
You've posted some good things in this thread, but you really stepped in it here:
scarletwoman
Aug 2015
#457
bravenak, thank you so much for this elucidating post. You helped ME to understand
DebJ
Aug 2015
#363
I never forget that!!! It was the best funniest stuff that ever happened on DU since;
bravenak
Aug 2015
#397
I have seen plenty of that sort of "talking down" to blacks, Latinos and women.
Vattel
Aug 2015
#430
Blaming this exploding racism on a Black man makes one look stupid AND racist.
DonCoquixote
Aug 2015
#475
I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate what you are doing, bravenak.
hedda_foil
Aug 2015
#456
I'm so glad. I hope you'll send him the link to this whole amazing thread right away.
hedda_foil
Aug 2015
#463
which candidate is speaking about issues of importance to black people?
noiretextatique
Aug 2015
#480