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2016 Postmortem

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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Tue Jul 14, 2015, 11:27 AM Jul 2015

The Plot To Marginalize Bernie Sanders - Salon [View all]

The plot to marginalize Bernie Sanders: The shared agenda that links Fox News and Hillary Clinton surrogates
Both parties are owned by plutocrats. Sanders' challenge threatens them both, and their responses are oddly similar

Sean Illing - Salon
Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 05:00 AM PDT

<snip>

Everyone is scrambling to make sense of the Bernie Sanders phenomenon. According to recent polls, the senator from Vermont is second only to Hillary Clinton among likely Democratic voters. Part of the confusion, it seems, has to do with Sanders’ so-called “socialism.” How, the pundits ask, can a self-described “socialist” gain any traction in American politics today?

I expect conservatives to pound this question down the throats of their audiences, but Democrats have latched onto this trope as well. Sen. Claire McCaskill, for instance, blithely suggested that Americans will reject Sanders once they discover his socialist roots: “This is somebody who can carry the torch of middle class opportunity without alienating a wide swath of voters by being, frankly, a socialist,” McCaskill said in defense of Hillary Clinton.

This is becoming tedious.
First, Bernie Sanders isn’t a socialist – at least not in the conventional sense of that term. It’s true that he occasionally accepts the label, but he does so in a very nuanced way – which, in my view, only adds to the confusion. But that’s another problem altogether. The point is that there are no socialist candidates running for president. However elastic the term has become, “socialist” does not mean progressive or liberal Democrat. Socialism, at minimum, requires the abolition of private property and government ownership of the means of production.

Nothing in Bernie Sanders’ platform qualifies as socialist, if that term has any relation at all to its historical meaning. Obsessing over Sanders’ socialist leanings is an exercise in distraction. The choice today, the only choice we really have, is between different species of capitalism. Republicans are absolutists; they fetishize the free market. People like Ted Cruz and Bobby Jindal want no regulation, no safety nets, and no constraints on private power. They represent the true believers, the ones who despise government and make a divinity of the market. Sanders rejects this brand of capitalist theology, but that doesn’t make him a socialist.

Take a look at Sanders’ actual platform. He’s not calling for the elimination of private ownership of productive forces. His agenda fits neatly under a capitalist paradigm – as it must. Yes, he wants to regulate commercial activities. Yes, he wants to break up too-big-to-fail banks. Yes, he supports unions. And yes, he believes healthcare and education are human rights. He is, however, a capitalist. What he – and many other Americans – reject is corporate welfare and monopoly capitalism and the complete financialization of the American economy. Again, that doesn’t make him a socialist. Even the conservative columnist George Will has acknowledged that Sanders’ vision is just a diluted version of the “social democracy” practiced in much of Europe.

That Sanders is dubbed a “Marxist” or a “socialist” is a testament both to the corruption of language, Fox News and the insidious propaganda machine in this country. The truth is that capitalism has won; no one seriously disputes that – certainly no one in government. “Socialism” is now an epithet, something conservatives hurl at people who challenge corporate power – the term has been emptied of any real content.

Many of the people dismissing Sanders (particularly on the right) have an exaggerated sense of their own freedom. Tyranny, they assume, is something only the state does. But that’s not true. Surrendering political power to corporate interests is a form of tyranny, too. This is what we have today. A political system without rule of some kind is impossible, even in a free society such as ours. The real question is who rules, to what degree, and to whose benefit? Conservatives want to eliminate government as much as possible, to let the market work its will. But we’ve seen the result of that. America, today, is much closer to a plutocracy than a democracy. Corporations write our laws, buy our elections, and dictate political discourse. That’s nakedly anti-democratic, and Sanders is one of the few candidates proposing to do something about it.


<snip>

More: http://www.salon.com/2015/07/14/the_plot_to_marginalize_bernie_sanders_the_shared_agenda_that_links_fox_news_and_hillary_clinton_surrogates/


166 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Excellent read, and right on point. nt good job, bud. Snotcicles Jul 2015 #1
Also, the word "socialist" has been thrown about so often, HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #2
I agree LiberalLovinLug Jul 2015 #71
It's been worn out by all the times our TPP-eager president was called socialist. eom Betty Karlson Jul 2015 #144
So true fasttense Jul 2015 #148
And polls show that 7 out 10 young voters WANT a Democratic Socialist sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #159
It's just beginning. They would have done the same to E. Warren, had she run--which is probably TwilightGardener Jul 2015 #3
I say bring it on Mnpaul Jul 2015 #94
It's not a plot ibegurpard Jul 2015 #4
+1 Could not be more apparent and that's been so from the jump. merrily Jul 2015 #154
GREAT article! Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #5
Yep... Check This Out From Thom Hartmann: WillyT Jul 2015 #107
Wow! Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #112
It's Over Here... wink, wink, nod, nod... WillyT Jul 2015 #116
Righto, this time it's Corporate Tyranny, absolutist style big time. appalachiablue Jul 2015 #131
That is the most awesome thing I've seen today Telcontar Jul 2015 #143
Author is still a little confused..... daleanime Jul 2015 #6
I think so too. immoderate Jul 2015 #20
Socialism (n): brooklynite Jul 2015 #22
then let's make sure we emphasize restorefreedom Jul 2015 #28
And I'm sure that as a good capitalist.... daleanime Jul 2015 #29
That definition is so off d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #48
It's a bit more complicated than that. From Merriam Webster. Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #50
Your definition is very narrow and harsh. This one from Dictionary.com is closer to what I learned. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #58
Lucky for us then, that Republicans have been hard at work for 40 years changing the meaning eridani Jul 2015 #72
I like that.... daleanime Jul 2015 #87
Funny how ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #90
I just noticed the number of PPR's from that thread you linked. Including the ever so obvious Number23 Jul 2015 #123
I could have posted a more recent link ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #125
Could it ever be possible that Merriam Webster Dictionary is skewed? It's not written in stone. YOHABLO Jul 2015 #113
Hmmm... Merriam Webster's definition is a bit suspect. mwooldri Jul 2015 #132
And right on point you are. Sen Sanders is obviously not a socialist as H. Clinton's henchperson rhett o rick Jul 2015 #138
"Social Democracy" is the relevant term. DirkGently Jul 2015 #158
This message was self-deleted by its author PotatoChip Jul 2015 #37
Democratic Socialism ... Democracy and Social Legislation Trajan Jul 2015 #78
No, he has it correct Mnpaul Jul 2015 #93
Social doesn't mean... daleanime Jul 2015 #95
social means collective ownership Mnpaul Jul 2015 #98
Democratic socialists are not for govt ownership of the means of production, but the merrily Jul 2015 #155
This is one where we'll disagree.... daleanime Jul 2015 #160
No one has told me that communism and socialism are the same thing, nor did I tell merrily Jul 2015 #162
People often mistake socialism for communism Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #164
True.... daleanime Jul 2015 #166
Yeah, we noticed. Does not faze us. We consider the source - these are quite familiar tactics. djean111 Jul 2015 #7
I absolutely agree udbcrzy2 Jul 2015 #18
+1 daleanime Jul 2015 #31
couldn't agree more - Thanks ! ciaobaby Jul 2015 #39
+1000 JDPriestly Jul 2015 #54
I completely agree on all points MissDeeds Jul 2015 #103
+ 1 appalachiablue Jul 2015 #127
Hillary is a plotting, evil, controlling, money hungry, untrustworthy boston bean Jul 2015 #8
Good Grief! 2banon Jul 2015 #11
The Hillarians keep themselves deliberately uninformed. They auto-trash threads with the word Doctor_J Jul 2015 #16
They have resorted to locking their thread to keep anti-Hillary voices out. jalan48 Jul 2015 #19
some of them believe there are rec squads out there pushing bernie threads to the top roguevalley Jul 2015 #23
They just don't get the fact that real Democrats like Bernie. jalan48 Jul 2015 #34
"They"?? George II Jul 2015 #86
The Hillary Police. They just love banning dissenters. jalan48 Jul 2015 #91
The Bernie group does EXACTLY the same thing ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2015 #133
My apologies-I didn't realize it was happening. I haven't seen anyone gloating about it. jalan48 Jul 2015 #134
Why would anyone gloat about it? sheshe2 Jul 2015 #141
No need to apologize ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2015 #142
Bernie is only scarry becasue he is helping the GOP: With out Hillary the Dem's are done! lewebley3 Jul 2015 #43
This is probably the stupidest post I've read in weeks. Fawke Em Jul 2015 #61
Sanders sat on in the Senate doing nothing, He has never been on the national stage lewebley3 Jul 2015 #65
Wow, two stupid posts in a row. zeemike Jul 2015 #73
Good response... Thespian2 Jul 2015 #111
erm meh gerd!!12 frylock Jul 2015 #89
This is the best you can do? hifiguy Jul 2015 #97
Rec for TRUTH. hifiguy Jul 2015 #99
some of them yes. but then there exist the swarm like hornets drawn to the smell of red meat. 2banon Jul 2015 #101
No.... daleanime Jul 2015 #33
It does happen. but keep an eye out for how she is described. boston bean Jul 2015 #36
Close... backscatter712 Jul 2015 #52
Eeyup. hifiguy Jul 2015 #102
If she gave a fuck about America she would be supporting Bernie!! pocoloco Jul 2015 #55
That's a good one! Nitram Jul 2015 #149
I agree tazkcmo Jul 2015 #80
This is not worthy of you, Bean. nt. druidity33 Jul 2015 #82
skinner: "We Hillary supporters need to be better than everyone else." beam me up scottie Jul 2015 #85
Oh, some more Hyperbole-R-Us. You don't do your candidate much, if any, good, with djean111 Jul 2015 #153
True-isms.. 2banon Jul 2015 #9
So this guy is blaming Clinton for the fact that Sanders calls himself a "socialist". DanTex Jul 2015 #10
I guess I missed Clinton's involvement in this. Where exactly in the article does he say that? 2banon Jul 2015 #12
Me too. I think if Bernie doesn't want to be considered a socialist, he shouldn't say DanTex Jul 2015 #13
I edited my previous post you responded to, where I correct myself and added my take on it.. 2banon Jul 2015 #14
The article suggests some "shared agenda" between Hillary and FOX. DanTex Jul 2015 #17
Your posts "suggest" you are a troll on threads involving Bernie Sanders Indepatriot Jul 2015 #21
Results of Jury Decision 1monster Jul 2015 #38
How the hell was that able to stand??? JaneyVee Jul 2015 #40
Perhaps delete your post. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #45
Do Bernistas think anyone who is not a full-blown Sanders supporter is a troll? Nitram Jul 2015 #150
The analysis is a mixed bag of a certain degree of hyperbole together with on point critique of 2banon Jul 2015 #26
I agree with the critique of corporate media. DanTex Jul 2015 #63
Well, I'm no youngster here. McGovern was my first presidential vote. 2banon Jul 2015 #83
I used to be a youngster. LOL. DanTex Jul 2015 #124
Rupert Murdoch Loves Hillary Clinton ieoeja Jul 2015 #56
She is also a big favorite of war criminal Henry Kissinger hifiguy Jul 2015 #104
No black people at his rallies... Doctor_J Jul 2015 #15
Apparently, only Hillary can talk about economics without BrotherIvan Jul 2015 #25
Recommend Read! KoKo Jul 2015 #24
But didn't Bernie claim he could prevent cervical cancer MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #27
It IS tedious. LWolf Jul 2015 #30
Can't stop the Sandstorm!!! fbc Jul 2015 #32
+1000000 SoapBox Jul 2015 #44
Clever... Maedhros Jul 2015 #74
That is wild! LuvNewcastle Jul 2015 #92
My God that is fantastic! Sanderstorm and then Bernami!!! appalachiablue Jul 2015 #129
I want this, how? Can't find it on YouTube- Thanks. appalachiablue Jul 2015 #137
I don't believe he's a socialist but he adds to the confusion by calling himself one... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #35
Have you ever lived in one of those counries? How do you know they aren't socialist. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #62
. Have you ever lived in one of those counries? How do you know they aren't socialist? DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #69
Of course, I would call Bernie more of a Realist than a Socialist, but JDPriestly Jul 2015 #114
We are Social Democrats... Bohemianwriter Jul 2015 #109
THat is just what I thought- Social Democrats until several months ago there was either Socialist appalachiablue Jul 2015 #130
The definition of socialism has been grotesquely distorted... gregcrawford Jul 2015 #41
No. That is NOT what socialism means. Indydem Jul 2015 #115
Wow. gregcrawford Jul 2015 #122
Can't you play nice? Indydem Jul 2015 #145
And they are forced to vote for her in November? Forced? frylock Jul 2015 #128
Well, I guess if that's your position... Indydem Jul 2015 #146
Merriam Webster is plotting against Bernie! redstateblues Jul 2015 #135
A Conspiracy! Indydem Jul 2015 #147
I don't give a crap about the label. SoapBox Jul 2015 #42
Very good article. Hopefully this iwll be well distributed to many voters. jwirr Jul 2015 #46
By Fux news standards, both Eisenhower & T. Roosevelt would be socialists! dmosh42 Jul 2015 #47
"Tyranny, they assume, is something only the state does." Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #49
Those who benefit from the status quo, "Democrats" and Repukes alike hifiguy Jul 2015 #51
+1 AOR Jul 2015 #96
"Surrendering political power to corporate interests is a form of tyranny, too." Jack Rabbit Jul 2015 #53
Yep... Did You Catch THIS: WillyT Jul 2015 #59
And THIS: WillyT Jul 2015 #60
I've argued with ignorant conservative dolts about that very issue Populist_Prole Jul 2015 #75
"Everyone is scrambling to make sense of the Bernie Sanders phenomenon." George II Jul 2015 #57
Oh, puhleeze! Did Dean flame out? Or was he "flamed out"? RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #64
Howard Dean's candidacy was over before the scream. Indydem Jul 2015 #117
Thanks for the cut-and-paste wisdom RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #121
Had nothing to do with the scream. He was interesting, had good things to say.... George II Jul 2015 #139
My husband has never heard of him and we live in MA. boston bean Jul 2015 #67
Ooops, one more less than "everyone"! George II Jul 2015 #68
Wow! I trust you're not bragging about this. RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #70
No kidding. beam me up scottie Jul 2015 #84
I could swear you post everyday Trajan Jul 2015 #79
I agree, George, the Bernie "phenomenon" is not very difficult to make sense of. Nitram Jul 2015 #151
Kind of pathetic how folks lap this crap up. Persondem Jul 2015 #66
He aims to be the game changer..going after the status quo which leaves very little in meaningful Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #76
It's what they did to Smedley Butler, Robert Oppenheimer, Richard Clark, or anyone telling the Truth orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #77
^This in a nutshell^ hifiguy Jul 2015 #100
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #81
K&R! marym625 Jul 2015 #88
Republicans voting for Bernie? rsexaminer Jul 2015 #105
Plot to marginalize Bernie? Don't need to have a plot to marginalize Bernie, if he can't sell Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #106
Why Anything That The HRC Team Does Is Not A Surprise - Is Not A Surprise cantbeserious Jul 2015 #108
It's good to see the perception of Sanders firming up Babel_17 Jul 2015 #110
"Everyone is scrambling to make sense of the Bernie Sanders phenomenon..." whereisjustice Jul 2015 #118
Clarity in this country of lies and half truths is just so refreshing . geretogo Jul 2015 #119
Friends are important nikto Jul 2015 #120
K&RRRRRRRRR Duppers Jul 2015 #126
Can definitely see it on DU AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #136
Great article. But we aren't gonna let Faux 'News' and Clinton surrogates marginalize PatrickforO Jul 2015 #140
He is an FDR Democrat, with or without the official party registration. tblue37 Jul 2015 #152
Thanks, Willy T. The more sunlight on this issue, the better. merrily Jul 2015 #156
"Social democrat" is the term. DirkGently Jul 2015 #157
to let the market work its will. AlbertCat Jul 2015 #161
nowhere in the article do the words "Democratic Socialist" appear. yodermon Jul 2015 #163
Bernie believes capitalism can be saved from itself and I agree. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #165
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