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cleduc

(653 posts)
58. I have stated many times that this thing with the cop smells real bad
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 01:10 AM
Aug 2014

And so did what Zimmerman did to Trayvon Martin.

Now we had all kinds of great rhetoric and outrage when Trayvon got blown away. Right? What did it get us? A lousy case by the prosecutor and Zimmerman walks.

So I see a bit of a deja vu here. Shallow stuff like "4 witnesses say it and therefore, it must be true" and you're a racist if you don't ignore what the officer is saying (now corroborated by CNN confirming source):
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/19/ac-radio-show-account-michael-brown-death.cnn.html
and another witness is saying:



So we have a dispute in the testimony to some extent. Many would feel, including me, that the officer's side is less credible and more suspicious. So would you, because it represents the 50 ft to 35 ft tale.

To me, it doesn't hurt to look objectively at the officer's position because one of two things will result:
a) it gets verified as being truthful and therefore, we don't want to convict an innocent man
b) more likely based upon what I know of the case so far, it gets holes blown in it so it won't stand up in court

Likewise, it doesn't hurt to look objectively at Mike Brown for similar reasons and possible outcomes.

I think with the power of the internet and so many critical eyes on this case, such scrutiny might improve the legal argument such that justice can be done for Mike Brown with a better quality legal position that wasn't done for Trayvon Martin. Maybe we'll fall short but I can't see the harm in trying.

I posted this over at Daily Kos tonight when I got confronted with racism:
So what are you selling? Because the victim is black, we're not supposed to examine his actions?

Race should have nothing to do with it.

Step back for a moment:

A police officer shoots an unarmed man. You can swap races to your hearts content on which race did what in that example. The actions of both parties should be examined to determine if the actions of the shooter were justified.

If the roles were reversed, would it be racist to examine the actions of the black cop?

Just because in this case, the victim happens to be black, one wanting to examine the actions of a victim doesn't make that examiner a racist. Both parties have rights. You should treat both parties as equals, shouldn't you?

Now I realize that in places like Ferguson, there is a disproportionate number of blacks getting knocked off, discriminated against, etc. And that is a horrific disgrace that seems to have frustratingly gone on all my life and still badly needs to be corrected. The bright lights on Ferguson right now are likely to bring about some good change in that regard such that Mike Brown won't have died for nothing. But let's correct it with real equality - even in the court cases that decide such issues. Take the high road.

If Brown's actions didn't warrant him to be shot, we should be able to scrutinize them to pieces and still arrive at a just conclusion.

To me, I wonder when someone says "you can't go there because he's black" if that isn't racism or a double standard.

The sooner we stop with the labels and just say 'that man did this and that other man did that", regardless of race, the sooner we achieve real equality.

To me, Mike Brown isn't a black man. He a man and that's how he should be treated in our discussions, our justice system and even in death. And I will never apologize for treating him that way nor accept being labeled as a racist when I try to look at his actions objectively that way in the interest of truth and justice - whether they're good or bad actions.


A little history: I was a little student worker bee for RFK's campaign and MLK when they were alive. Protested the Vietnam war. Streaked against Nixon's "I have nothing to hide". Won my first gay rights battle in '74 - got some funding. Lost a student housing fight that made front pages in '76. Etc - right through to helping Obama get elected, etc. I've been fighting my little fights for civil and human rights for 51 years. So calling me a racist or as someone else called me tonight a "racist troll" is a little tough to take.

If you want to bring down this cop:
1) make sure he's guilty
2) make sure you've got an airtight case against him and all the BS they'll bring up trying to sway it
and that's what I've been trying to do.
How Often? Who can count that high? Little Star Aug 2014 #1
We had the rarest thing ever in Oklahoma. A cop shot an unarmed black man in the back CBGLuthier Aug 2014 #2
Each case has to be individually reviewed based on the facts agbdf Aug 2014 #3
So you showed up here just to post this sort of nonsense? Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #4
I see you have already tried the officer and found him guilty before the facts are in. agbdf Aug 2014 #8
There are plenty of eyewitnesses.. BronxBoy Aug 2014 #11
And YOU'VE tried him, exonerated and hail him as a white hero ... 66 dmhlt Aug 2014 #23
Eh, lots are declaring Brown guilty before the facts are in. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #32
Drugs will likely show up in tox report agbdf Aug 2014 #37
Do you have any basis for stating that other than SWAG? Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #42
Experience agbdf Aug 2014 #43
Yes, I was right! MJ in the system. agbdf Aug 2014 #44
mj Kalidurga Aug 2014 #47
Marijuana? Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #49
Marijuana stays in the system a long time after using it GitRDun Aug 2014 #51
So he was too mellow to charge? Gore1FL Aug 2014 #89
Maybe ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #76
You know what though? It's been going the other way as well. cleduc Aug 2014 #52
I was replying to someone who appeared to be siding ONLY with the LEO, giving him the benefit of Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #54
The echo chamber has been saying, "Wait until all the facts come in"... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #59
Well, Jerry, chervilant Aug 2014 #9
Wow. "If Brown attacked the officer and tried to take that officer's pistol away from him, as is rhett o rick Aug 2014 #17
35 feet not yards agbdf Aug 2014 #39
So let's see if I understand your position. The young man was walking away from the officer then rhett o rick Aug 2014 #40
Those facts will come in after a complete investigation agbdf Aug 2014 #41
Where do you get that bit of wisdom? eom. 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #80
Let me try to clarify this 35 feet thing cleduc Aug 2014 #53
Let's see if I have that theory right. Michael Brown apparently got away from the officer. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #55
"I think that's wishful thinking of the racists among us." cleduc Aug 2014 #56
Yes I might have been. But then help me out. Why would anyone stretch the story to rhett o rick Aug 2014 #57
I have stated many times that this thing with the cop smells real bad cleduc Aug 2014 #58
A police officer shot an unarmed teenager 5 or 6 times, making sure he was dead. rhett o rick Aug 2014 #79
Probably not an overweight alleged smoker in flipflops who was apparently already shot once. Gore1FL Aug 2014 #74
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #78
there are three feet in a yard jberryhill Aug 2014 #81
Simply ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #86
Footwear seems to be a significant limiting factor here jberryhill Aug 2014 #87
Just stop malokvale77 Aug 2014 #19
I see you have already exonerated him. hue Aug 2014 #22
How do you know it was Brown in the store video? A Simple Game Aug 2014 #25
Yes but bl968 Aug 2014 #5
Really? agbdf Aug 2014 #6
Wow.... BronxBoy Aug 2014 #12
No question his hood and sheet are... nt HooptieWagon Aug 2014 #18
Criminal???? BronxBoy Aug 2014 #13
Have you noticed chervilant Aug 2014 #14
Yep.... BronxBoy Aug 2014 #15
Something else I'm noticing: chervilant Aug 2014 #16
I found another one JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #28
Seems like more are coming out of the woodwork, chervilant Aug 2014 #30
Don't update your IL, exercise your alert button. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #33
Good point. chervilant Aug 2014 #46
Michael Brown has never been convicted of a crime JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #26
this reminds me of the "slavery couldn't have been evil" because I refuse to believe so many people bettyellen Aug 2014 #91
The cops here were averaging 10 a year Warpy Aug 2014 #7
There's a good point in there. Igel Aug 2014 #10
Excessive force is not a race issue. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #20
It wasn't a box JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #27
The police need better training. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #35
We don't know how the officer felt JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #36
A local resident says differently. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #45
You still can't tell me how the thug was thinking JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #48
I'd imagine he was fueled by fear. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #60
Your imagination wouldn't hold up in a court of law JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #61
I know the case. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #62
I know the case too! JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #63
... sheshe2 Aug 2014 #64
You know how I know you've lost the argument? talkguy365 Aug 2014 #65
I didn't lose an argument my friend JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #66
More name calling and make blind accusations. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #68
Oh honey JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #69
Post removed Post removed Aug 2014 #70
I'm open - if it makes sense JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #71
I'm not hiding my beliefs. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #73
There it is JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #77
You seem to have a hard time handling the truth right in front of you. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #83
You keep changing the target JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #84
One person armed and in a vehicle against another person unarmed and on foot. Dark n Stormy Knight Aug 2014 #93
Link to The Talk JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #67
The starting point was the police car. Brown died car lengths away. Gore1FL Aug 2014 #75
He ran then turn around and charged. talkguy365 Aug 2014 #82
He turned around with his hands up and was shot according to the eye-witnesses. Gore1FL Aug 2014 #88
the coroner said one or two could have hit him from behind, and if not- his hands were up. bettyellen Aug 2014 #92
Oh JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #85
"Fear for my life" = LEO 101 justification for using weapon. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #50
I'm thinking JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #72
Excessive force hits minorities much harder Al Carroll Aug 2014 #29
A minor theft would lead credence to attacking an officer? Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #34
Q: Exactly How Often Do Police Shoot Unarmed Black Men? blkmusclmachine Aug 2014 #21
police shoot first to often. They approach cars and enter homes way to fast! Sunlei Aug 2014 #24
To answer the question, "too often" Blue_Tires Aug 2014 #31
I'm trying to figure out JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #38
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #90
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