HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Politics 2014 (Forum) » Lincoln - what if he had ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:34 AM

Lincoln - what if he had really negotiated with the South ? [View all]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by ellisonz (a host of the Politics 2014 forum).

600,000 Americans dead and 1 million amputations with no medication - I'm no fan of Lincoln's, sorry.

I agree ... and this is only the obvious physical cost of Lincoln's war of choice - not the economic and psychological.

Just 20 years ago, Czechoslovakia peacefully split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia and both have been better off.



For decades we have supported and encouraged secession movements throughout the world:

Germany-Austria | Norway-Sweden | Russia-{Finland}-Ukraine-Latvia-Uzbekistan etc. | Yugoslavia-Croatia-Bosnia-etc.
Pakistan-Bangladesh | China-Taiwan | Vietnam | East Timor - West Timor ... and more



Yet many fail to see how hypocritical and undemocratic it is to deny US citizens our right to peaceful separation.

Predicting History is Tricky - perhaps we only extended the misery of Southern blacks

How many would have predicted the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, dissolution of the USSR starting in 1990, the end of virtual black slavery known as "Apartheid" in South Africa in the early 1990s?

Here is a possible alternate scenario:

Lincoln negotiates with Robert E. Lee to allow partial secession of the South while maintaining loose confederation with the rest of the United States. The USA is allowed by agreement to gradually purchase the freedom and relocation of slaves on the condition that no trade barriers are introduced by the USA and minimum price supports are introduced for Southern agricultural products. Minimum Southern slave "rights and conditions" must be adopted by Southern states.

The Northern states, unencumbered by war debts and proud of its "fight for freedom" status, encourages early black integration and prospers far more than the already backwards Southern states. There is a "brain drain" of more progressive Southerners and those seeking Northern prosperity. This northward flight encourages moderation in Southern politics and more rights for "slaves". That cycle accelerates as the economic gulf between North and South continues.

Later, many Northerners no longer want to continue agricultural price supports to the "slave owning" South. They want to dissolve the confederation between the USA and the breakaway South. There are further negotiations between North and South with the end result that the South agrees to gradually end slavery to maintain its "most favored trading" status.

66 replies, 4673 views

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 66 replies Author Time Post
Reply Lincoln - what if he had really negotiated with the South ? [View all]
LVZ Nov 2012 OP
bemildred Nov 2012 #1
Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #30
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #34
Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #43
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #47
Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #50
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #55
Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #57
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #52
Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #59
bemildred Nov 2012 #53
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #64
patricia92243 Nov 2012 #2
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #5
mysuzuki2 Nov 2012 #3
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #4
ROBROX Nov 2012 #6
LVZ Nov 2012 #10
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #14
LVZ Nov 2012 #18
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #19
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #22
bemildred Nov 2012 #13
bemildred Nov 2012 #56
CCJORDAN Nov 2012 #7
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #11
sharp_stick Nov 2012 #8
Paladin Nov 2012 #9
NoPasaran Nov 2012 #12
onehandle Nov 2012 #15
csziggy Nov 2012 #16
LVZ Nov 2012 #21
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #23
LVZ Nov 2012 #26
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #31
Paladin Nov 2012 #29
hack89 Nov 2012 #32
csziggy Nov 2012 #58
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #17
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #20
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #27
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #28
LVZ Nov 2012 #33
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #37
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #41
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #35
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #38
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #42
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #45
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #49
geek tragedy Nov 2012 #51
Blue4Texas Nov 2012 #24
csziggy Nov 2012 #60
Blue4Texas Nov 2012 #62
jeff47 Nov 2012 #25
The Magistrate Nov 2012 #36
FDRLincoln Nov 2012 #39
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #44
WI_DEM Nov 2012 #40
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #48
rrneck Nov 2012 #46
FDRLincoln Nov 2012 #54
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #61
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #63
LVZ Nov 2012 #65
ellisonz Nov 2012 #66