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2016 Postmortem

In reply to the discussion: I Saw "Lincoln" Today [View all]
 

Polldancer2012

(88 posts)
64. thats not quite correct...
Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:04 PM
Nov 2012

and I will respectfully correct you.

1861 would be akin to 1938 in your example and in 1938 there were no concentration camps ( in the WW2 sense of the word) and no occupied Europe.

I'm talking about 1861 negotiations. At that time Europe was already anti-slavery. Even the South could see the writing on the wall.

Here's the real problem. And I'm confident of this. Lincoln HAD NO IDEA that the Civil War would erupt into what it did. He anticipated sending some called up troops down south for a little saber rattling and all would be good. Once the war got bad and the Union was getting pummeled, Lincoln HAD NO CHOICE but escalation. Circumstances moved Lincoln, not the other way around.

At that point he became desperate to save the Union and fought the war decisively.

Let's be graphic... Lincoln's war cost 140x the deaths as Shrub's Iraq in 1/3 the time. There's NOTHING heroic or awe inspiring about the USCW.

I Saw "Lincoln" Today [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 OP
How realistic were the vampires? jenw2 Nov 2012 #1
That's A Moronic Theme/nt DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #2
Really... besides, they were zombies jberryhill Nov 2012 #52
Maybe There Will Be A Sequel, Franklin Roosevelt, Ghost Buster/nt DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #57
Frankenstein Roosevelt? cui bono Nov 2012 #81
Franklinstein. n/t. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #109
Of course! How did I miss that??? cui bono Nov 2012 #121
Wrong movie, but thanks for asking. nt. OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #3
LOL! He was making Funny boingboinh Nov 2012 #16
lol, great post. Ztolkins Nov 2012 #14
Lucky you! hedda_foil Nov 2012 #4
I saw it today, too. Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #5
I saw the producer and production designer talk about the film today. Kablooie Nov 2012 #21
I'd love to hear about what they said.That film was beautifully designed. The set decoration CTyankee Dec 2012 #135
Wife and I tried to see it at the Landmark yesterday. All remaining shows were sold out when coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #36
Keep trying. It's really worth it. Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #53
I hope that you get an opportunity to visit the Lincoln museum murielm99 Nov 2012 #6
yeah InsultComicDog Nov 2012 #7
Yes, he was a man of his time. Maplegrass Nov 2012 #100
You're basing your view of Lincoln on a MOVIE? WeekendWarrior Nov 2012 #8
He was a pragmatist. Aristus Nov 2012 #11
The Union absolutely Had To hold. alphafemale Nov 2012 #25
Predicting history is tricky - what if the Civil War prolonged the suffering of Southern blacks ??? LVZ Nov 2012 #89
Yes, you're right. It's tricky, and no one knows what the right choice is. Maplegrass Nov 2012 #101
You really have not read the OP, have you? intaglio Nov 2012 #108
A few disagreements. ieoeja Dec 2012 #141
I believe the poster specifically pointed out . . . MrModerate Nov 2012 #19
"I know now that while certain ideals are timeless" WeekendWarrior Nov 2012 #20
That Movie You're Trashing..... Paladin Nov 2012 #24
Your threshold for amazement . . . MrModerate Nov 2012 #31
Maybe The Movie Will Inspire People To Learn About The Real Lincoln DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #44
I'm curious where American kids are supposed to be getting all of this in-depth information... OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #34
Storytelling has been used to teach history since, like, *forever*. Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2012 #51
The movie was extremely well researched. Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #56
This film doesn't make a lot up. Kablooie Nov 2012 #22
It Didn't Think Me Thirty Five Years From The First Time I Studied Lincoln To Know His Views On Race DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #27
Lincoln was smart. lalalu Nov 2012 #29
LOL - I think you win the award for Understatement of the Millennium with coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #38
Made Me Want To Listen To A Certain Song DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #40
Oh so true. lalalu Nov 2012 #42
Sherman Is The First "Modern" General To Employ The "Total War" Concept/nt DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #48
He was one bad dude. lalalu Nov 2012 #49
As Long As You Weren't In His Path DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #50
Sherman Was Unlike Grant Who Hated Slavery DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #39
Lyndon Johnson's greatness was tarnished by Vietnam. lalalu Nov 2012 #46
Johnson was a bigger-than-life Texan with a bad attitude Maplegrass Nov 2012 #102
Grant's main problem was that he was too trusting Wraith20878 Nov 2012 #78
Great points about Grant. lalalu Nov 2012 #111
It was his fatal flaw Wraith20878 Nov 2012 #122
If Sherman had thought it was primarily a issue of Slavery whistler162 Nov 2012 #96
Thanks for the information. lalalu Nov 2012 #97
But Grant Was A True Believer DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #116
" ...his concern was the Union, not slavery. Success at any cost." morningfog Nov 2012 #35
The movie is based on Doris Kearns Goodwin's biography\history, btw. Lincoln's coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #37
Gore Vidal lalalu Nov 2012 #47
Goodwin's book is Obama's favorite book on Lincoln. n/t EmeraldCityGrl Nov 2012 #110
A lot of movies are based on books WeekendWarrior Dec 2012 #138
So tell us where we can see him in person & ask him his views ... Myrina Nov 2012 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #126
the movie was based on Doris Kearns Goodwin's acclaimed book "Team of Rivals" so it has CTyankee Dec 2012 #136
And you're assuming WeekendWarrior Dec 2012 #137
Oh, I wasn't talking about all of Hollywood.Nor all of picture making. CTyankee Dec 2012 #140
Dying to see it!6? cilla4progress Nov 2012 #9
When I read "Team of Rivals" I cried my eyes out at the end. MrSlayer Nov 2012 #10
Isn't it strange how that happens? ailsagirl Nov 2012 #18
But now he belongs to the ages Wraith20878 Nov 2012 #79
I can't wait to see that film demmis19566ie Nov 2012 #12
I can't wait to see it ReRe Nov 2012 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author ailsagirl Nov 2012 #15
Greatly looking forward to seeing it. silverweb Nov 2012 #17
The Fiery Trial NoPasaran Nov 2012 #23
I expect I'll watch it, if nothing else for Tony Kushner Anthony McCarthy Nov 2012 #26
Thanks for that warning. MuseRider Nov 2012 #30
the score was rather understated.... dhill926 Dec 2012 #130
As a Daniel Day Lewis fan lalalu Nov 2012 #28
Looking forward to seeing it Progressive dog Nov 2012 #32
I notice they flooded election night with "Lincoln" ads Patiod Nov 2012 #33
I Think Spielberg Released It After The Election Because He Didn't Want To Be Seen DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #41
Of course, interestingly at that point in time Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #55
Lincoln Republicans do not exist anymore... and-justice-for-all Nov 2012 #43
Lincoln Is In The Pantheon Of Great Presidents DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #45
Lincoln would get teabagged right out of the party today 47of74 Dec 2012 #124
My dining table was bequeathed to my grandfather and grandmother by the granddaughter kestrel91316 Nov 2012 #54
I have trouble thinking of Lincoln as a hero Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #59
"...of blood drawn with the lash, shall be repaid by another drawn by the sword." DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #60
was any form of negotiation attempted? Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #61
Yeah ,But The South Wanted To Keep Their Slaves DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #62
thats not quite correct... Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #64
It was certainly an ugly war. Maplegrass Nov 2012 #103
Exactly/nt DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #115
I think you just answered your own question Hippo_Tron Nov 2012 #73
The Way I See It DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #74
You're kidding, right?! obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #83
I believe there was more involved with the civil war Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #63
of course Polldancer2012 Nov 2012 #65
No It Was Primarily Fought Because Traitorous Southerners Seceded./nt DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #68
For The Traitorous Southerners It Was A War To Save Slavery DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #70
In the lower south, there was absolutely no other way whatsoever Hippo_Tron Nov 2012 #67
Exactly DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #69
It wasn't really removed... Hippo_Tron Nov 2012 #71
As You Know That Was Because Of The Disputed Election Of 1876 DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #72
Reconstruction was basically done before the 1876 election Hippo_Tron Nov 2012 #75
PREACH! abetterkid Nov 2012 #114
And now the most ridiculous among them are threatening to secede again... Maplegrass Nov 2012 #104
NC was dragged in kicking and screaming obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #84
No. obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #82
This one's the one with Daniel Day Lewis as Lincoln? backscatter712 Nov 2012 #66
I read Team of Rivals and am excited to see the movie davidpdx Nov 2012 #76
Did the movie talk about the Greenback dollar? UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #77
It wasn't the Union side, it was teh United States government obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #85
I put Union Side in parentheses to differentiate it from confederate states UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #88
Agreed, fighting a central bank had a great deal to do with it. Maplegrass Nov 2012 #105
Really looking forward to this movie Wraith20878 Nov 2012 #80
Lincoln is the Best Film I've seen in Decades... Iggy Dec 2012 #149
600,000 Americans dead and 1 million amputations with no medication Ter Nov 2012 #86
If You Were Black And Your Children Were Sold Like Animals From The Same Litter DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #87
History does not work like that ... LVZ Nov 2012 #90
While All This Is Occurring Blacks Folks Are Continued To Be Treated Like Chattel DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #92
in the short term, yes, in the longer term, Southern blacks may have suffered more ... n/t LVZ Nov 2012 #93
They Suffered More Because Reconstruction Ended Too Soon. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #94
very likely true ... n/t LVZ Nov 2012 #95
That's true.. even in blue Virginia I see Confederate flags frequently. Maplegrass Nov 2012 #107
AMEN! abetterkid Nov 2012 #113
Yeah, we let them up a little too easy 47of74 Dec 2012 #125
Not worth 600,000 dead and 1 million amputations with hand saws Ter Nov 2012 #98
So Don't See The Fucking Movie. (nt) Paladin Nov 2012 #91
Is it Lincoln's fault effective anesthesia and penicillin did not yet exist? (n/t) Maplegrass Nov 2012 #106
Is It Lincoln's Fault That The South Seceded From The Union Because They Wanted To Own Other Folks? DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #117
Or fired on FEDERAL TROOPS because they were pissed Lincoln was elected? obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #119
He was a truly great man. Maplegrass Nov 2012 #99
I really can't wait to see Lincoln but... abetterkid Nov 2012 #112
Doesn't The Scholarship Suggest Lincoln Abandoned His Repatriation Plans Prior To His Assassination? DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #118
yes obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #120
He was a man with flaws and had complex views on many subjects. Kablooie Dec 2012 #134
I saw it today 47of74 Dec 2012 #123
Why didn't the Emancipation Declaration include outlawing slavery in the North? nt Bonobo Dec 2012 #127
One of the sole reasons for the Proclamation Third Doctor Dec 2012 #128
enjoyed it greatly, and can't wait..... dhill926 Dec 2012 #129
I "think" he was the one who was beaten so badly by a southernor in the House of Representatives CTyankee Dec 2012 #132
interesting..... dhill926 Dec 2012 #133
No, that was his ally Charles Sumner Adenoid_Hynkel Dec 2012 #144
Thanks. I was really uncertain about this one. Since Stevens was an abolitionist and it looked CTyankee Dec 2012 #145
They didn't really portray Sumner as injured in the film Adenoid_Hynkel Dec 2012 #146
I actually noticed that club foot in the film (toward the end). CTyankee Dec 2012 #147
Just an aside, Sugarcoated Dec 2012 #148
I saw it last night. Beacool Dec 2012 #150
There Was An Argument How About Many Lives Needed To Be Sacrificed To Free The Slaves DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2012 #131
Thanks for the post. Beacool Dec 2012 #139
Saw it last night. BlueDemKev Dec 2012 #142
Saw it this past sunday. Great movie. Impeachable offense for Lincoln? Filibuster Harry Dec 2012 #143
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