2016 Postmortem

Octafish

(55,745 posts)

13. Thomas Frank: It's Clinton Who Wrecked the Democratic Party

Reply to Armstead (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:11 AM

Apr 2016

Listen, Liberal.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

171 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The WORST thing about this primary has been the continued Demonization of Progressive Liberalism [View all] Armstead Apr 2016 OP

I think there's been a pushback against true believer 'progressivism' geek tragedy Apr 2016 #1

The phrase "progressive liberalisation" now is used to mean Baobab Apr 2016 #18

You keep saying that, and never address her positions on the 1st and 4th amendment JonLeibowitz Apr 2016 #62

...cuz "supports the patriot act, the drug war, stopping encryption & putting flag burners in jail" Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #150

This message was self-deleted by its author actslikeacarrot Apr 2016 #77

... or 'progressive' fundamentalism wyldwolf Apr 2016 #89

There you go again. Thanks for illustrating my point Armstead Apr 2016 #103

I was more the happy to illustrate your point. wyldwolf Apr 2016 #120

Thanks again, as that was mentioned in the Op Armstead Apr 2016 #121

Bernie is not a REAL Democrat. frylock Apr 2016 #122

When Clinton supporters Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #130

I guess you mean people who still think tht the New Deal was a good idea n/t eridani Apr 2016 #149

The worst thing has been the continued demonization of a Progressive Liberal - Hillary Clinton. baldguy Apr 2016 #2

They've slurred President Obama along the way, too CorkySt.Clair Apr 2016 #4

+ 1 JoePhilly Apr 2016 #8

"Slurred" President Obama? Armstead Apr 2016 #41

Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #55

Anything you say Mr. Rove Armstead Apr 2016 #59

Next, you'll be trying to convince everyone that Hillary killed Vince Foster. baldguy Apr 2016 #73

I must have missed Bernie's speech where he said that. Armstead Apr 2016 #82

I had to search that one Mnpaul Apr 2016 #144

The only people bringing up Vince Foster here is Hillary Supporter. frylock Apr 2016 #124

It can't be posted too often Mnpaul Apr 2016 #145

Yes. Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #93

Obstruction being present shouldn't stop anyone from advocating... TCJ70 Apr 2016 #96

Even the compromise, the Public Option ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2016 #139

But you're fine with the fact that Hillary defied a direct order from Obama.. frylock Apr 2016 #127

Did Hillary slur President Obama when she consulted with Blumenthal.. frylock Apr 2016 #123

Since when does perpetual war, perpetual destruction of the Earth, fossil fuels, and playing VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #5

Thank you. Dawgs Apr 2016 #9

Yeah - like people using RW talking points, RW tactics & RW propaganda baldguy Apr 2016 #21

Like what? n/t Dawgs Apr 2016 #24

Like claiming that any of the Clinton "scandals" from over the last 35 yrs baldguy Apr 2016 #86

You are exactly right Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #95

I missed it when Bernie said "Democratic whore" ........Can you enlighten me? Armstead Apr 2016 #97

They don't care. Dawgs Apr 2016 #110

Okay. So no examples. Dawgs Apr 2016 #107

They got nothing. Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2016 #140

Which right wing talking points? Armstead Apr 2016 #44

Being critical of corporate capital and perpetual war are not right wing talking points. Redwoods Red Apr 2016 #76

Clinton's foreign policy isn't progressive, nor is her kowtowing to Wall Street. rhett o rick Apr 2016 #136

They are projecting when they accuse us ... Fantastic Anarchist Apr 2016 #141

Yes. They support an agenda that in many aspects agree with the Right Wing rhett o rick Apr 2016 #143

That is an old conservative goto. They are chock-full of such because that is what they are. TheKentuckian Apr 2016 #148

If there's a DUer out there who LibDemAlways Apr 2016 #23

Then you only see what you want to see. JTFrog Apr 2016 #30

WORD Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #108

That's a fact! workinclasszero Apr 2016 #16

Well said leftynyc Apr 2016 #31

I agree apcalc Apr 2016 #34

+1 Can't Tie Your Hands Behind Your Back-You've Got to Win First and Then Change Policy Stallion Apr 2016 #72

I guess you missed the cycles where Dems "won" and not much changed Armstead Apr 2016 #157

How many years in recent history Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2016 #159

Whether in control or in power or divided among WD and Congress... Armstead Apr 2016 #160

When the GOP is in control Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2016 #165

Forests and Trees Armstead Apr 2016 #166

I won't defend each and every Democrat and say they're all perfect Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2016 #170

Hillary is liberal on social issues only. On economics and foreign policy she is a mixed bag at best think Apr 2016 #45

Is she? pengu Apr 2016 #153

Yeah, I would consider socially "moderate" at best.......nfm socialist_n_TN Apr 2016 #171

A fact that seemed to be ignored by some still_one Apr 2016 #56

if you think so... Scootaloo Apr 2016 #151

Progressives can expect to be blamed entirely for the election of President Trump corkhead Apr 2016 #3

Pointing out political reality IS NOT demonization Armstead. Trust Buster Apr 2016 #6

Sanders did not step into a vacuum Armstead Apr 2016 #14

You absolutely MUST generalize about millions and millions of people. Trust Buster Apr 2016 #15

This can get very complicated.... Armstead Apr 2016 #25

The party needs to split. It really does. Joe the Revelator Apr 2016 #7

Yep. Dawgs Apr 2016 #10

they dont realize, or will not acknowledge what they are risking reddread Apr 2016 #11

It already has, in all but name. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #64

But it isn't a split, it's an exile of progressives in favor of corporate centrism - eom dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #112

Fair enough. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #125

I could make an argument that the party is already split Unicorn Apr 2016 #132

The modern Democratic wants two things from its "constituents" FlatBaroque Apr 2016 #12

Thomas Frank: It's Clinton Who Wrecked the Democratic Party Octafish Apr 2016 #13

Key phrase "Conniving in their ruin" Armstead Apr 2016 #17

We're looking at 8 more years of trickle down. Octafish Apr 2016 #20

Nice whirlygigspin Apr 2016 #36

yep. nt antigop Apr 2016 #57

Yep.... haikugal Apr 2016 #66

The worst thing about this primary is the demonization of the base voters of the democratic party workinclasszero Apr 2016 #19

You jump on a couple of isolated things and distort them Armstead Apr 2016 #32

Yes he did and he's getting push back from it in the form of a letter workinclasszero Apr 2016 #46

Taking a statement and twisting it mean something else is deflection Armstead Apr 2016 #48

So its just my faulty interpretation of the Great Man's words then huh? workinclasszero Apr 2016 #58

I find it interesting that Sanders is being attacked for.... Armstead Apr 2016 #80

Not JUST Base Voters-All 98% of the Officeholders Who Support Clinton Stallion Apr 2016 #71

I agree with Paul Wellstone Armstead Apr 2016 #104

I disagree with your premise. LonePirate Apr 2016 #22

^^^ That (nt) Recursion Apr 2016 #26

I disagree with your premise Armstead Apr 2016 #37

+1000 Punkingal Apr 2016 #54

In Bernie's case the issues are very much driving LibDemAlways Apr 2016 #42

Bit by bit, the Dragon is awakening from its slumber. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #27

That is the truth. MuseRider Apr 2016 #63

Reality..... haikugal Apr 2016 #67

No, the worst thing has been the hijacking of the phrase "progressive liberalism"... Recursion Apr 2016 #28

Bullshit. Armstead Apr 2016 #38

Nope its Queen Hillary who stole the term "Progressive" jack_krass Apr 2016 #74

So you actually have physical reactions to that? Recursion Apr 2016 #75

"a physical reactions to that" jack_krass Apr 2016 #106

she's regressive, not progressive dana_b Apr 2016 #87

This. nt Bobbie Jo Apr 2016 #105

There's a difference between BIG and POSSIBLE. Bernie lacked the latter. CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #29

Nothing is possible if one does not try. Armstead Apr 2016 #39

It depends what kind of priorities you have. Arugula Latte Apr 2016 #90

Ex: Free college is BIG. Free college paid for by Republican governors is not POSSIBLE. CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #91

Yet corporate welfare and endless war is NEVER QUESTIONED. Arugula Latte Apr 2016 #92

Let's be honest... CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #101

Then, after the war, Iraq became "an excellent business opportunity for U.S. corporations" dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #113

Rightly so. The first is absurdly stupid lying nonsense unworthy of consideration and TheKentuckian Apr 2016 #147

And yet Hillary says she will expand the ACA. pinebox Apr 2016 #152

You can expand the ACA at the federal level. No states involved. CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #164

He sure managed to energize the youth and the independents. Unicorn Apr 2016 #129

Turnout is still down this year. He's no 'energizer' compared to Obama. CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #131

K&R quantumjunkie Apr 2016 #33

trying to revive this tired old party with no progressive aspiration... status quo... kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #35

This is neither a tired nor an old party Recursion Apr 2016 #40

alienating and kicking out young people who finally got engaged etc. Short-sighted Foolishness. kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #47

Maybe we should raise the voting age to 45 Armstead Apr 2016 #65

Now you're giving them ideas!! haikugal Apr 2016 #68

Thank You! Well stated.... KoKo Apr 2016 #43

We're still young....Just a little more wrinkled Armstead Apr 2016 #50

I am a Progressive. But I'm not an Ideologue. KittyWampus Apr 2016 #49

What's the difference? Armstead Apr 2016 #53

What a lot of Democrats don't know, Hillary voters especially, is that corporate interests have... Bread and Circus Apr 2016 #51

Hillary's dirt, the dirt she throws is her entire campaign, just like 08. ViseGrip Apr 2016 #52

There's been a "gleeful meanness" here, while embracing Rockefeller Republicanism villager Apr 2016 #60

Exactly....nt haikugal Apr 2016 #70

Wonderful OP! Thank you!!! K&R! haikugal Apr 2016 #61

I should be tired of MuseRider Apr 2016 #69

AMEN! KPN Apr 2016 #78

Good Lord. Sparkly Apr 2016 #79

No you all would be calling him an angry one-issue demagogue Armstead Apr 2016 #94

I remember Paul Wellstone Sparkly Apr 2016 #99

I remember him too and he was not considered a moderate by the Dem Establishment Armstead Apr 2016 #100

Bingo. He was treated as some hippiecommiefreak by the Pragmatic Sensibles, QC Apr 2016 #102

Thank you for posting that important segment, sadly the people who need to hear most will close TheKentuckian Apr 2016 #146

Many cannot be reasoned with felix_numinous Apr 2016 #81

What gets me is what seems to be driving HRC success is black and hispanic voters, who seem to trust Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #111

What helps me understand felix_numinous Apr 2016 #115

great points... I guess powerful elites like this need to be good at controlling enough people Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #138

It makes zero sense. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #128

Outstanding Post, Armstead! 2banon Apr 2016 #83

The battles between right and left in the party has been around since the inception. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #84

Being anti war is not longer... actslikeacarrot Apr 2016 #85

which is what is driving me away from being a Democrat Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #109

The worst was the Bernie Vatican affair longship Apr 2016 #88

We need to make systemic changes to the system or it will continue to be this way. stillwaiting Apr 2016 #98

Thank you for taking the time to articulate this so well dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #114

The Party is fine. It's "progressives" who are their own problem. BKH70041 Apr 2016 #116

why is your type allowed around here? Schema Thing Apr 2016 #119

If the party has abandoned progressivism (clue: it has), then fuck it. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #126

The party is far from fine. Open your eyes. Unicorn Apr 2016 #133

The party is fine. That's why membership is down to 30% and dropping. frylock Apr 2016 #135

Nice attitude, and another example of what I was referring to Armstead Apr 2016 #137

Unfortunate by-product of the myth of inevitability... Orsino Apr 2016 #117

K&R Schema Thing Apr 2016 #118

Well said. Thank you! nt DLevine Apr 2016 #134

every single thing I see by the Trumpettes on FB the Clinton campaign flogs 12 days later, average MisterP Apr 2016 #142

when "progressive liberalism" becomes my way or the highway...its neither progressive or liberal beachbum bob Apr 2016 #154

I would say Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2016 #155

Like Trump would only say nice things about Clintion otherwise Armstead Apr 2016 #156

it's not that he won't say nice things about Clinton/Dems Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2016 #158

He does the same with Clinton attacks against Bernie Armstead Apr 2016 #161

Except that Bernie is not *likely* to be the nominee Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2016 #167

He has always been focused on issues Armstead Apr 2016 #168

... Scuba Apr 2016 #162

Excellent Armstead Apr 2016 #163

primary is just a taste of how anti-D republicans are. Would have been worse but the Rs got Trumped. Sunlei Apr 2016 #169