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Religion

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rug

(82,333 posts)
Tue Nov 5, 2013, 11:11 AM Nov 2013

Religion’s surprising emotional sense: New atheists are wrong again [View all]

Non-believers call me dogmatic, self-righteous, judgmental. Maybe they are. Here's what they miss about belief

Saturday, Nov 2, 2013 08:00 AM EDT
By Francis Spufford

My daughter has just turned six. Some time over the next year or so, she will discover that her parents are weird. We’re weird because we go to church.

This means—well, as she gets older there’ll be voices telling her what it means, getting louder and louder until by the time she’s a teenager they’ll be shouting right in her ear. It means that we believe in a load of bronze-age absurdities. It means that we don’t believe in dinosaurs.

It means that we’re dogmatic. That we’re self-righteous. That we fetishize pain and suffering. That we advocate wishy-washy niceness. That we promise the oppressed pie in the sky when they die. That we’re bleeding hearts who don’t understand the wealth-creating powers of the market. That we’re too stupid to understand the irrationality of our creeds. That we build absurdly complex intellectual structures, full of meaningless distinctions, on the marshmallow foundations of a fantasy. That we uphold the nuclear family, with all its micro-tyrannies and imprisoning stereotypes. That we’re the hairshirted enemies of the ordinary family pleasures of parenthood, shopping, sex and car ownership. That we’re savagely judgmental. That we’d free murderers to kill again. That we think everyone who disagrees with us is going to roast for all eternity. That we’re as bad as Muslims. That we’re worse than Muslims, because Muslims are primitives who can’t be expected to know any better. That we’re better than Muslims, but only because we’ve lost the courage of our convictions. That we’re infantile and can’t do without an illusory daddy in the sky. That we destroy the spontaneity and hopefulness of children by implanting a sick mythology in your minds. That we oppose freedom, human rights, gay rights, individual moral autonomy, a woman’s right to choose, stem cell research, the use of condoms in fighting AIDS, the teaching of evolutionary biology. Modernity. Progress. That we think everyone should be cowering before authority. That we sanctify the idea of hierarchy. That we get all snooty and yuck-no-thanks about transsexuals, but think it’s perfectly normal for middle-aged men to wear purple dresses. That we cover up child abuse, because we care more about power than justice. That we’re the villains in history, on the wrong side of every struggle for human liberty. That if we sometimes seem to have been on the right side of one of said struggles, we weren’t really; or the struggle wasn’t about what it appeared to be about; or we didn’t really do the right thing for the reasons we said we did. That we’ve provided pious cover stories for racism, imperialism, wars of conquest, slavery, exploitation. That we’ve manufactured imaginary causes for real people to kill each other. That we’re stuck in the past. That we destroy tribal cultures. That we think the world’s going to end. That we want to help the world to end. That we teach people to hate their own natural selves. That we want people to be afraid. That we want people to be ashamed. That we have an imaginary friend; that we believe in a sky pixie; that we prostrate ourselves before a god who has the reality status of Santa Claus. That we prefer scripture to novels, preaching to storytelling, certainty to doubt, faith to reason, law to mercy, primary colors to shades, censorship to debate, silence to eloquence, death to life.

But hey, that’s not the bad news. Those are the objections of people who care enough about religion to object to it—or to rent a set of recreational objections from Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. As accusations, they may be a hodge-podge, a mish-mash of truths and half-truths and untruths plucked from radically different parts of Christian history and the Christian world, with the part continually taken for the whole (if the part is damaging) or the whole for the part (if it’s flattering)—but at least they assume there’s a thing called religion there which looms with enough definition and significance to be detested. In fact there’s something truly devoted about the way that Dawkinsites manage to extract a stimulating hobby from the thought of other people’s belief. The ones in this country must be envious of the intensity of the anti-religious struggle in the United States; yet some of them even contrive to feel oppressed by the Church of England, which is not easy to do. It must take a deft delicacy at operating on a tiny scale, like doing needlepoint, or playing Subbuteo, or fitting a whole model-railway layout into an attaché case.

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/02/religions_surprising_emotional_sense_new_atheists_are_wrong_again/

Excerpted from “Unapologetic: Why, Despite Everything, Christianity Still Makes Surprising Emotional Sense.” Copyright © 2013 by Francis Spufford. Reprinted with permission from HarperOne, a division of HarperCollinsPublishers.

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I don't have a problem with Christianity! atreides1 Nov 2013 #1
Poppycock ... Trajan Nov 2013 #2
codswallop. yet more whining about how xians are being persecuted. please. . . niyad Nov 2013 #3
He's not whining about being persecuted. He's reciting a common litany. rug Nov 2013 #4
whining niyad Nov 2013 #5
That's persuasive. rug Nov 2013 #8
Why is 'reciting a common litany' not 'whining'? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #12
Observing tedious, canned and derivative criticisms is not whining. rug Nov 2013 #13
Which paragraph? I can see 2 in which he's whining muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #16
It's the third paragraph. rug Nov 2013 #19
Did he not write the other ones, then? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #21
The whole thing is an excerpt from his book. rug Nov 2013 #22
So the whiny stuff, rather than where he's repeating what he thinks other say, is his too? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #23
Whiny is in the eye of the beholder. rug Nov 2013 #24
like I said, keep trying. we really need the laughs. niyad Nov 2013 #26
Yes, you (singular, not plural) certainly do. rug Nov 2013 #32
He is not whining Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #45
Your whine is noted cleanhippie Nov 2013 #91
No he is not gcomeau Nov 2013 #58
Are those common accusations? rug Nov 2013 #59
Any individual accusation on is list... gcomeau Nov 2013 #61
I suspect you missed the point. rug Nov 2013 #62
I suspect I don't give a shit about his point... gcomeau Nov 2013 #63
Stop whining. rug Nov 2013 #64
Ha.... Ha..... Ha.... -eom gcomeau Nov 2013 #65
his dismissive comments about those who do not believe exactly as he does are even more insulting niyad Nov 2013 #6
For someone who says he's whining about persecution, it's curious you feel insulted. rug Nov 2013 #10
keep trying, we all need the laughs today. the sheer hypocrisy of him whining about all the terrible niyad Nov 2013 #25
Let me understand you. You are objecting to someone ridiculing those who ridicule? rug Nov 2013 #33
. . niyad Nov 2013 #35
That's exactly right Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #46
The objection is in regard to a factual error. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #50
Your whine is noted. Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #51
I read this a few days ago... well, I tried to read it but couldn't get through it. cbayer Nov 2013 #7
That's interesting because he teaches Creative Writing. rug Nov 2013 #9
I initially thought that as well, but he seemed to continue this style in cbayer Nov 2013 #17
It must be tough to be a Christian in western culture Goblinmonger Nov 2013 #11
If you read it closely, he's not commenting about what they're saying. rug Nov 2013 #14
no, his whine is that they say it far too well--to the point where a lot of people get it. but we niyad Nov 2013 #27
"they say it far too well" rug Nov 2013 #31
Thanks for the irrelevant quote Lordquinton Nov 2013 #87
Thanks for a relevant whine. rug Nov 2013 #88
You don't get it do you? Lordquinton Nov 2013 #89
I get you quite well. rug Nov 2013 #92
Gees. Whatta maroon! longship Nov 2013 #15
Well, to be fair, there's a picture of three out of four of them at the link. rug Nov 2013 #18
British writer - he's got to stick to the targets his market is more likely to know muriel_volestrangler Nov 2013 #20
That third paragraph sounds like what passes for intelligent discussion by some Du antitheists. Leontius Nov 2013 #28
Not half as idiotic as what DU Theocrats tend to spew. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #44
Less idiotic than what some DU atheists spew. Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #47
Idiotic, nonetheless. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #57
Clearly, you do not know what QED means Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #60
Your whine is noted. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #66
Yawn... stopbush Nov 2013 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author Cronus Protagonist Nov 2013 #30
American readers may need to be alerted that Subbuteo is a table top version of cricket and other dimbear Nov 2013 #34
Yet another example of theists masquerading as a poor, put upon victim. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #36
Thank you Promethean Nov 2013 #37
Who is claiming to be "a poor, put upon victim"? rug Nov 2013 #38
I can also hold public office now. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #39
Make sure you wash your hands. rug Nov 2013 #40
I do. CONSTANTLY. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #41
Ah, a whine from an atheist Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #48
Adjust your antennas, your reception is off. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #49
No, you whined Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #52
I pointed out a logical error in his complaint. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #53
You whined about what you claim is a logical error Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #54
I didn't say he was whining. AtheistCrusader Nov 2013 #55
You really feel that's a "whine?" eqfan592 Nov 2013 #67
You have done nothing BUT whine throughout this thread Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #68
Where there are laws on the books that literally keep us from holding public office... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #69
Torcaso. okasha Nov 2013 #70
You do understand that six state constitutions still include provisions that would... eqfan592 Nov 2013 #71
You do understand that a SCOTUS decision trumps any state constitution, don't you? okasha Nov 2013 #93
Apparently, you missed the Supreme Court decision Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #72
You understand those constitutional provisions are still on the books, right? eqfan592 Nov 2013 #73
Yes, but as the article YOU cited in your previous post points out, Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #76
Here ya go, some reading material. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #74
As the article you cite points out Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #75
Are you serious? i didn't realize it was possible to be that obtuse. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #77
Yes, I read the entire article Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #78
Your unabashed bigotry is noted, as is your new position on my ignore list. eqfan592 Nov 2013 #79
So I looked up the arduous task of changing North Carolina's constitution Goblinmonger Nov 2013 #80
Someone alerted on your post Heddi Nov 2013 #81
I love how juror #3 reminds him of his "you atheist arseholes" comment. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #82
Which part of "almost unseated" gives you trouble? Fortinbras Armstrong Nov 2013 #83
The only one whining here is you. And your whine is noted. cleanhippie Nov 2013 #85
Post removed Post removed Nov 2013 #86
Post removed Post removed Nov 2013 #90
It would be great to repeal that stuff, but it's all been completely inoperative for fifty years struggle4progress Nov 2013 #84
Poor gal probably needs to read the bible JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #42
The author's a man. rug Nov 2013 #43
My apologies. JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #56
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