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In reply to the discussion: Churches offering concealed-carry weapons training to attract members [View all]spin
(17,493 posts)54. Unfortunately "Thou shalt not kill" is a mistranslation. ...
If you read the Old Testament you will find many accounts of wars in which the Israelis killed others.
For example the Battle of Jericho:
The battle
The biblical account describes the Israelites being led by Joshua and crossing the Jordan into Canaan where they laid siege to the city of Jericho. There, God spoke to Joshua telling him to march around the city once every day for six days with the seven priests carrying ram's horns in front of the ark. On the seventh day they were to march around the city seven times and the priests were to blow their ram's horns. This Joshua did, and he commanded his people not to give a war-cry until he told them to do so. On the seventh day, after marching around the city the seventh time, the priests sounded their ram's horns, and Joshua ordered the people to shout. The walls of the city collapsed, and the Israelites were able to charge straight into the city. The city was completely destroyed, and every man, woman, and child in it was killed. Only Rahab and her family were spared, because she had hidden the two spies sent by Joshua. After this, Joshua burned the remains of the city and cursed any man who would rebuild the city of Jericho would do so at the cost of his firstborn son. It is generally accepted that the biblical date for the fall of the walls is the 28th of Nisan, according to the Hebrew calendar.[2]...emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho
Here's an explanation of the mistranslation:
As for your question about the 5th/6th commandment (there's a difference in the numbering of the Big Ten), the most widely-known translation is, indeed, "Thou shalt not kill." Unfortunately, this translation is profoundly and radically incorrect.
In biblical Hebrew, as in English, killing (harag) and murder (ratzah) are two different words with two very different moral connotations, and the commandment uses the Hebrew word ratzah, which means that the proper translation of the commandment from Hebrew into English is, "Thou shalt not murder." The difference is crucial.
Killing is taking a life. Murder is taking a life with no moral justification. Murder is morally wrong, but there is wide moral agreement (not complete agreement) that some forms of killing are morally just, and killing an enemy combatant during wartime is one of them. You did not violate the commandment by serving in the American army and fighting the battles you were ordered to fight.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-12/features/sns-201204101200--tms--godsqudctngs-a20120412apr12_1_commandment-killing-murder
A longer explanation is available at: http://people.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html
Of course these explanations might prove unconvincing to your Quaker friend.
Peace testimony, or testimony against war, is a shorthand description of the action generally taken by members of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) for peace and against participation in war. Like other Quaker testimonies, it is not a "belief", but a description of committed actions, in this case to promote peace, and refrain from and actively oppose participation in war. Quakers' original refusal to bear arms has been broadened to embrace protests and demonstrations in opposition to government policies of war and confrontations with others who bear arms, whatever the reason, in the support of peace and active nonviolence. Because of this core testimony, the Religious Society of Friends is considered one of the traditional peace churches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Testimony
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I have suspected this for some time. "Fellowship" encompasses whatever you want it to. nt
patrice
Nov 2012
#1
Is the legitimate use of a weapon to defend yourself, your family or another innocent individual ...
spin
Nov 2012
#14
Just think how many people they could bring through the doors with BDSM classes!
struggle4progress
Nov 2012
#5
Ya you never know when you might need a gun or a hand grenade at church!!
Vietnameravet
Nov 2012
#11
If more believers held the same POV as you, the world woul be a much better place.
cleanhippie
Nov 2012
#53
For postgraduate credit, see the movie "Five Card Stud" and pay special attention to
dimbear
Nov 2012
#56
If they aren't raptured, they'll be able to treat The Rapture like a big fun skeet shoot!
struggle4progress
Nov 2012
#63