Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

spin

(17,493 posts)
54. Unfortunately "Thou shalt not kill" is a mistranslation. ...
Mon Nov 26, 2012, 08:06 PM
Nov 2012

If you read the Old Testament you will find many accounts of wars in which the Israelis killed others.

For example the Battle of Jericho:


The battle

The biblical account describes the Israelites being led by Joshua and crossing the Jordan into Canaan where they laid siege to the city of Jericho. There, God spoke to Joshua telling him to march around the city once every day for six days with the seven priests carrying ram's horns in front of the ark. On the seventh day they were to march around the city seven times and the priests were to blow their ram's horns. This Joshua did, and he commanded his people not to give a war-cry until he told them to do so. On the seventh day, after marching around the city the seventh time, the priests sounded their ram's horns, and Joshua ordered the people to shout. The walls of the city collapsed, and the Israelites were able to charge straight into the city. The city was completely destroyed, and every man, woman, and child in it was killed. Only Rahab and her family were spared, because she had hidden the two spies sent by Joshua. After this, Joshua burned the remains of the city and cursed any man who would rebuild the city of Jericho would do so at the cost of his firstborn son. It is generally accepted that the biblical date for the fall of the walls is the 28th of Nisan, according to the Hebrew calendar.[2]...emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho


Here's an explanation of the mistranslation:


As for your question about the 5th/6th commandment (there's a difference in the numbering of the Big Ten), the most widely-known translation is, indeed, "Thou shalt not kill." Unfortunately, this translation is profoundly and radically incorrect.

In biblical Hebrew, as in English, killing (harag) and murder (ratzah) are two different words with two very different moral connotations, and the commandment uses the Hebrew word ratzah, which means that the proper translation of the commandment from Hebrew into English is, "Thou shalt not murder." The difference is crucial.

Killing is taking a life. Murder is taking a life with no moral justification. Murder is morally wrong, but there is wide moral agreement (not complete agreement) that some forms of killing are morally just, and killing an enemy combatant during wartime is one of them. You did not violate the commandment by serving in the American army and fighting the battles you were ordered to fight.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-04-12/features/sns-201204101200--tms--godsqudctngs-a20120412apr12_1_commandment-killing-murder


A longer explanation is available at: http://people.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/001102_ThouShaltNotMurder.html

Of course these explanations might prove unconvincing to your Quaker friend.



Peace testimony, or testimony against war, is a shorthand description of the action generally taken by members of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) for peace and against participation in war. Like other Quaker testimonies, it is not a "belief", but a description of committed actions, in this case to promote peace, and refrain from and actively oppose participation in war. Quakers' original refusal to bear arms has been broadened to embrace protests and demonstrations in opposition to government policies of war and confrontations with others who bear arms, whatever the reason, in the support of peace and active nonviolence. Because of this core testimony, the Religious Society of Friends is considered one of the traditional peace churches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_Testimony







I have suspected this for some time. "Fellowship" encompasses whatever you want it to. nt patrice Nov 2012 #1
Jesus was NOT in favor of using weapons. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #2
Nobody ever accused me of being a bible scholar but rrneck Nov 2012 #4
I said using. He never said anything about being armed. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #8
Did he think it would be used for a door stop? rrneck Nov 2012 #13
Jesus was not for using weapons. Read the Holy Gospels! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #17
And I think it's always wrong to kill, every time no matter why. rrneck Nov 2012 #20
I you feel the need to arm I will not challenge that! Be careful my friend! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #23
I dont carry a gun. rrneck Nov 2012 #26
When the revolution comes you will protect me! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #28
I appreciate your confidence but rrneck Nov 2012 #32
Bull!!! You are goin to be with me in the revolution hrmjustin Nov 2012 #33
Will there be cookies? nt rrneck Nov 2012 #40
I would say that to kill an attacker in legitimate self defense is justified. ... spin Nov 2012 #31
To my mind legal and right are two different things. rrneck Nov 2012 #39
Like you I have absolutely no desire to ever have to kill another person ... spin Nov 2012 #41
I used to be a helluva salesman. rrneck Nov 2012 #44
IT'S A SWORD! tblue Nov 2012 #51
You apparently. rrneck Nov 2012 #52
But a careful reading of that passage Vietnameravet Nov 2012 #12
That might be debatable. ... spin Nov 2012 #6
Jesus was said nothing about being armed, but he was not for using them. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #10
I will politely suggest that he was not for the misuse of weapons. ... spin Nov 2012 #21
Ah read the gospels! he did not like violence. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #22
When WC Fields was caught reading the bible, safeinOhio Nov 2012 #29
lol my friend! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #35
I will agree that Jesus was opposed to unnecessary violence. ... spin Nov 2012 #36
God bless you Spin!!!! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #37
May God bless you also. (n/t) spin Nov 2012 #42
they pander to fear and ignorance Skittles Nov 2012 #3
Is the legitimate use of a weapon to defend yourself, your family or another innocent individual ... spin Nov 2012 #14
omg Skittles Nov 2012 #18
Thanks. I totally agree. (n/t) spin Nov 2012 #27
Just think how many people they could bring through the doors with BDSM classes! struggle4progress Nov 2012 #5
I wonder if there is any cultural phenomena rrneck Nov 2012 #7
I apologize for dropping the dime on you. (n/t) spin Nov 2012 #15
No worries dawg! I laughed my ass off. rrneck Nov 2012 #19
You make a damn good point. (n/t) spin Nov 2012 #25
Concealed what? Bibles? TheCowsCameHome Nov 2012 #9
Ya you never know when you might need a gun or a hand grenade at church!! Vietnameravet Nov 2012 #11
A legal firearm in church may make sense as it is a defensive weapon. spin Nov 2012 #30
Well you never know.. Vietnameravet Nov 2012 #49
zombies? Phillip McCleod Nov 2012 #58
I find this to be an interesting paraodox. cleanhippie Nov 2012 #16
Some Christians have a negative view of medicine. ... spin Nov 2012 #24
So what is the point then? cleanhippie Nov 2012 #46
The God I believe in can become a handy crutch in times of need. ... spin Nov 2012 #48
If more believers held the same POV as you, the world woul be a much better place. cleanhippie Nov 2012 #53
Thanks for your support. (n/t) spin Nov 2012 #55
But doesn't is say "thou shalt no kill"? Vietnameravet Nov 2012 #50
Unfortunately "Thou shalt not kill" is a mistranslation. ... spin Nov 2012 #54
Oh lord won't ya buy me...... left on green only Nov 2012 #34
Guns and religion. A natural match. Iggo Nov 2012 #38
Clinging to guns and religion. Moses2SandyKoufax Nov 2012 #43
Off topic. Iggo Nov 2012 #47
Luke 22:49-51 rug Nov 2012 #45
For postgraduate credit, see the movie "Five Card Stud" and pay special attention to dimbear Nov 2012 #56
And the one in Texas is justifying this using racism. cbayer Nov 2012 #57
just giving people one more reason not to go to church Phillip McCleod Nov 2012 #59
Their website is a trip struggle4progress Nov 2012 #60
From the Remnant Sons website: struggle4progress Nov 2012 #61
Oh boy. That is some scary stuff. cbayer Nov 2012 #62
If they aren't raptured, they'll be able to treat The Rapture like a big fun skeet shoot! struggle4progress Nov 2012 #63
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Churches offering conceal...»Reply #54