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Religion

In reply to the discussion: Have It Your Way [View all]

struggle4progress

(118,236 posts)
25. How free is the will? Sam Harris misses his mark
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:55 PM
Aug 2012

... Harris appears, then, to think that free will means acting (1) in circumstances such that I could have done otherwise (in the strong, mysterious sense), and (2) by means of a process of deliberation that is entirely conscious. Since, this does not happen, he concludes, we do not have (what he calls) free will.

As always, Harris writes clearly, persuasively, and with a certain rhetorical flair. In particular, he has an enviable gift for describing opposing views in ways that make them sound ridiculous - whether they are or not. Free Will - the book, that is - is entertaining and easy to read, and I'm sure it will sell plenty of copies.

However, I submit that the views Harris ridicules are not, in all cases, ridiculous at all, and that readers of his new book should subject it to sceptical scrutiny. Free Will provides neither any useful historical context (it ignores the long cultural conversation) nor any state-of-the-art analysis of the current philosophical positions and their respective problems (it ignores most of the professional literature).

Importantly, the concept of free will that Harris attacks so relentlessly bears little resemblance to either the dominant folk ideas (roughly speaking, that fatalism is false, and that we commonly act without coercion, with adequate time to think) or the technical concept used by most philosophers (we have the capacity to act in such a way that we are morally responsible for our conduct) ...

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/04/26/3489758.htm

Have It Your Way [View all] rug Aug 2012 OP
If you believe free will exists, then prove it. trotsky Aug 2012 #1
Do you believe what Harris wrote? rug Aug 2012 #2
I see no evidence that free will, as commonly understood, exists. trotsky Aug 2012 #3
I see choices, large and small, made billions of times a day by billions of people. rug Aug 2012 #4
You see choices being made. So do I. No dispute there. trotsky Aug 2012 #5
If you see a choice, you see free will. rug Aug 2012 #6
Do other animals have free will, or only humans, rug? trotsky Aug 2012 #7
Observing my cat, I infer choice. Limited choice, but choice nonetheless. rug Aug 2012 #8
That doesn't answer my question. trotsky Aug 2012 #9
It does, given the indefiniteness of the question. rug Aug 2012 #10
I learned to fling ad homs from the best, rug. trotsky Aug 2012 #11
You haven't learned very well. rug Aug 2012 #12
Thanks again for the lovely behavior, rug. trotsky Aug 2012 #13
No. Jim__ Aug 2012 #14
Thoughtful, thorough and informative, as usual. rug Aug 2012 #18
Nope. rrneck Aug 2012 #15
Very freudian conceptually and I do agree that free will is often an illusion. cbayer Aug 2012 #16
I suppose Sammy's view is that he wrote the book because elementary physical laws struggle4progress Aug 2012 #17
Hedges was not talking about the area in which Harris has a Ph.D. Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #20
Over various years I took several neuro-chemistry and neuro-anatomy courses, struggle4progress Aug 2012 #22
No it is more that the choices we make are not conciouslly made, Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #32
It is clearly true that we do not control everything about ourselves: struggle4progress Aug 2012 #34
Well the problem is that currently attempts to measure what we consciously control Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #40
Free will debates: Simple experiments are not so simple struggle4progress Aug 2012 #41
Harris has a Ph.D. in neuroscience, for god's sake. Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #19
Dr. Bjorn Brembs (PhD) is a neurobiologist. Jim__ Aug 2012 #24
How does that go . . . appeal to authority? rug Aug 2012 #28
It's not a logical fallacy skepticscott Aug 2012 #31
... Given his other books, one would expect science to drive Harris’s conclusions, but here struggle4progress Aug 2012 #35
OK, let's walk through it Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #36
Wait, wait, wait! If we are going to do the negative Socratic dialectic thingie, I think that struggle4progress Aug 2012 #37
So when you can't use your Google-fu, you won't play Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #38
If there is no such a thing as free will, then what sense can I possibly make struggle4progress Aug 2012 #39
So you aren't gong to answer the question. Goblinmonger Aug 2012 #42
Anyone else believe this? AlbertCat Aug 2012 #21
We’re all schizophrenics now struggle4progress Aug 2012 #23
How free is the will? Sam Harris misses his mark struggle4progress Aug 2012 #25
LOL trotsky Aug 2012 #33
The cold, cramped, atheistic world of Sam Harris struggle4progress Aug 2012 #26
Will This Post Make Sam Harris Change His Mind About Free Will? struggle4progress Aug 2012 #27
Calvin meet Harris, er, Hobbes. rug Aug 2012 #29
Maybe it's only fate if it happens to somebody else? struggle4progress Aug 2012 #30
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