Reply #42

In the discussion thread: Science has NO NEED TO reconcile with RELIGION ! [View all]

Tue Apr 17, 2012, 08:38 AM

tama (9,137 posts)

42. Faith

The word can mean many things, but IMO the most usefull in this context would that it refers to state of mind of confidence and trust and belonging, simple as that.

And us such, it would be misuse of faith to use a simple state of mind as rational argument for truth value of any propositional statements. State of mind of confidence and trust does not presuppose or require any belief in any objects, spiritual or material, or presence of questions that require answers in the form of propositional statements.

Thus understood, faith is not a bullying move, but the demand that faithfull state of mind asks and answers the guestions of doubting, inquisitive etc. state of mind with similar or contradictory propositional statements can be bullying.

More formally, in this view about faith there can and often does arise category mistake in these discussions of expecting that non-inquisitive and confident state of mind aka 'faith' should behave as inquisitive scientific or other rationally inquiring state of mind demands.

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85 replies	Author	Time	Post
Science has NO NEED TO reconcile with RELIGION ! [View all]	SamG	Apr 2012	OP
It depends on the religion somewhat. Catholic schools teach evolution and always have...	Sarah Ibarruri	Apr 2012	#1
Do Catholic schools teach that reasonable people can...	SamG	Apr 2012	#2
Nope, but the Catholic Church followed the leader of the inventors of the Anti-Abortion movement...	Sarah Ibarruri	Apr 2012	#4
I have been around since Bill Baird in the 1960's!	SamG	Apr 2012	#6
I was raised Catholic. I'm not saying the Catholic religion is not anti-abortion.	Sarah Ibarruri	Apr 2012	#8
That's because the leaders are 100% male and those men	Warpy	Apr 2012	#9
Right... that's the problem...	Joseph8th	Apr 2012	#56
God created Evolution	HockeyMom	Apr 2012	#3
I know, and that's what I believe, too. The more science uncovers, the more I believe in a	Sarah Ibarruri	Apr 2012	#5
None of that statement "God created Evolution" makes sense	SamG	Apr 2012	#7
It's better than the alternative	HockeyMom	Apr 2012	#10
+1 Very true!	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#14
Well, maybe. But maybe not.	longship	Apr 2012	#11
I didn't talk about people who do the believing based upon faith	SamG	Apr 2012	#12
The article to which I believe your refer (which I posted) was written by a scientist	cbayer	Apr 2012	#13
I don't think this thread has anything to do with your thread	SamG	Apr 2012	#17
You think I don't have a career or am bilingual?	cbayer	Apr 2012	#18
Speak to me in your other language, then.	SamG	Apr 2012	#19
Sorry, I don't take orders from you, but then again	cbayer	Apr 2012	#22
I agree. And we have an argument for that.	longship	Apr 2012	#15
Faith	tama	Apr 2012	#42
Yeah, but you forgot about quantum faith.	cleanhippie	Apr 2012	#43
I see	tama	Apr 2012	#46
You see? If you would stop trying to apply your narrow minded logic, you would know	cleanhippie	Apr 2012	#54
If there was such a thing	tama	Apr 2012	#60
How do you know there isn't?	laconicsax	Apr 2012	#71
How do you know	tama	Apr 2012	#72
The implication is that it doesn't.	laconicsax	Apr 2012	#73
I thought	tama	Apr 2012	#74
That's quite the obfuscation!	laconicsax	Apr 2012	#75
This is fun!	tama	Apr 2012	#76
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.	laconicsax	Apr 2012	#77
Question about quantum-faith:	DetlefK	Apr 2012	#80
I suppose that would depend on what type of geometry is at play.	laconicsax	Apr 2012	#83
If there was such a thing as quantum faith,	AlbertCat	Apr 2012	#81
The word can mean many things	AlbertCat	Apr 2012	#49
OK	tama	Apr 2012	#52
Faith in its normal definition	longship	Apr 2012	#55
You don't have to take any person seriously, period.	tama	Apr 2012	#58
Well, I have faith that the moon is made of green cheese	longship	Apr 2012	#62
OK	tama	Apr 2012	#65
You mean that the moon may be made of green cheese?	longship	Apr 2012	#68
Lol!	rug	Apr 2012	#16
Reconciliation between science and religion isn't absolutely necessary, but...	Silent3	Apr 2012	#20
And don't even get me started on the property settlement!	cbayer	Apr 2012	#21
Reconciling is simple -- science gets the last word on everything that can be observed	starroute	Apr 2012	#23
Once a believer said the following to anon-believer,	Thats my opinion	Apr 2012	#25
Love is a lot harder	starroute	Apr 2012	#32
"Now that you have deconstructed God, now deconstruct love."	AlbertCat	Apr 2012	#50
Except that...	Joseph8th	Apr 2012	#57
Science it not where it was in 1599. Neither is religion. nt	Thats my opinion	Apr 2012	#24
Would you care to comment upon which of the two has...	SamG	Apr 2012	#26
SILENCE for an hour on the question! I guess we know which	SamG	Apr 2012	#27
From TMO, silence is all you will get.	cleanhippie	Apr 2012	#28
It's a mixed bag.	Thats my opinion	Apr 2012	#78
You aren't making a key connection here.	trotsky	Apr 2012	#82
That's a hard thing to measure.	rrneck	Apr 2012	#29
Was it the science that did that, or the political and other convictions of those who	SamG	Apr 2012	#30
Like i said, it's hard to measure.	rrneck	Apr 2012	#31
Right, but...	Joseph8th	Apr 2012	#59
AFAIK	tama	Apr 2012	#64
I don't think the Nuremberg defense quite gets the job done.	rrneck	Apr 2012	#66
This message was self-deleted by its author	Thats my opinion	Apr 2012	#33
Nice answer, Sarah Palin. n/t	Goblinmonger	Apr 2012	#45
If by science	tama	Apr 2012	#34
This is the most accurate thing you've typed I think I've ever seen.	trotsky	Apr 2012	#35
Having studied	tama	Apr 2012	#38
"Whichcraft?" Is that anything like "Whatscraft" or "Whoscraft?"	LAGC	Apr 2012	#47
LOL	tama	Apr 2012	#48
I was once bit by wherecraft!	OriginalGeek	Apr 2012	#84
it's not something that happened during "theocratic" Middle Age	AlbertCat	Apr 2012	#51
Yup	tama	Apr 2012	#53
Well, scientists may need to if religion has a chair at the political table	HereSince1628	Apr 2012	#36
Or more generally	tama	Apr 2012	#37
Scientists try to control social influences on science but you can't take	HereSince1628	Apr 2012	#41
" 'Science' and 'Religion' are abstract nouns with little agreement over any exact definitions."	humblebum	Apr 2012	#63
Well, you have some good points.	SamG	Apr 2012	#39
Democracy is messy and comes without guarantees...	HereSince1628	Apr 2012	#40
Very broad generalisations	tama	Apr 2012	#44
Agreed 100%!!!	Joseph8th	Apr 2012	#61
Molification of the above...	Joseph8th	Apr 2012	#67
Walls of Separation	tama	Apr 2012	#70
Thanks... love the music of those two groups of...	Joseph8th	Apr 2012	#79
Clearly, there are anti-scientific religious notions that do not need science's attetntion.	Thats my opinion	Apr 2012	#69
But it doesn't need to be.	OriginalGeek	Apr 2012	#85

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