Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts) Sat Jan 10, 2015, 10:50 AM Jan 2015

Religion Was Not the Reason For the Paris Attacks [View all]

http://religiondispatches.org/religion-was-not-the-reason-for-the-paris-attacks/

BY MARK JUERGENSMEYER JANUARY 9, 2015

Earlier today, French police pursued the suspects in the murders at Charlie Hebdo to a warehouse north of Paris, where the duo was killed in a swift raid. But questions remain: why did they do it, and did religion play a role?

As soon as it became clear that the perpetrators of Wednesday’s military-style assault were Muslim, and that they had shouted out as they raced from the scene of their massacre that this was in revenge for the insults levied by the cartoon portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad, the die seemed to be cast. This was a case of Islamic terrorism.

Senator Lindsey Graham said so. The Paris attacks prove that we are “in a religious war” with radical Islam. The respected journalist, George Packer, hurriedly posted an opinion piece at The New Yorker arguing that this act had nothing to do with the ethnic tensions in France and it was simply a calculated attack on behalf of “Islamist ideology.” Twitter and Facebook were full of accusations that once again Islamic religion has propelled its faithful into violence.

But the truth may be more complicated than that.

more at link

139 replies

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Religion Was Not the Reason For the Paris Attacks [View all] cbayer Jan 2015 OP

Interesting article. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #1

The strongest and most consistent thing correlated with religious belief cbayer Jan 2015 #4

Agreed! hrmjustin Jan 2015 #5

The crux of this person's argument is this line in italics: Skinner Jan 2015 #2

Religion does much more than provide the excuse for terrible behavior. cbayer Jan 2015 #3

Yes, religion does much more than provide the excuse for terrible behavior. Skinner Jan 2015 #6

Is it more responsible than the social and political conditions in which cbayer Jan 2015 #8

I am not dismissing it. Skinner Jan 2015 #10

I think the headline is misleading, as the author would agree with you, cbayer Jan 2015 #11

Except the author wouldn't agree with this: Skinner Jan 2015 #21

I wouldn't agree with that either. Is that your position? cbayer Jan 2015 #22

We're not talking about a woman with postpartum psychcosis. Skinner Jan 2015 #26

I'm not so sure that you can really make a distinction between a woman cbayer Jan 2015 #30

Um, religion did play a role in boston. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #39

Religion supplies the concept of devil and possession. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #28

Nationalism supplies the concept of organized violence in the service of a "greater good". rug Jan 2015 #33

Nationalism can, sure. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #36

I blame it on the Belgians. rug Jan 2015 #37

Visigoths. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #68

Wow, really? Your argument here is that this endless onslaught Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #48

Interesting read here. bvf Jan 2015 #70

Yeah I've seen that data before. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #115

That statement applies equally to hundreds of service members who spent time in Iraq and Afghanistan rug Jan 2015 #23

If you look at the people who flipped out because a flag was burned you'll likely see similarities. rug Jan 2015 #17

Religion offered them the "excuse"... PassingFair Jan 2015 #32

The Defense Appropriation bills do a much better job every years. rug Jan 2015 #34

Religion also offers the "excuse" cbayer Jan 2015 #35

Wow. PassingFair Jan 2015 #40

It's actually much more cultural than religious, but that doesn't matter. cbayer Jan 2015 #41

Then perhaps you can explain how this "cultural" phenomena has spread to Leontius Jan 2015 #50

There is a portion of the population for which this has cbayer Jan 2015 #52

Emigration. okasha Jan 2015 #63

nobody is denying the good, somebody here is desperately attemptimg to deny the bad. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #49

maybe Locrian Jan 2015 #29

I agree. nt m-lekktor Jan 2015 #54

It also provides inspiration for wonderful works Prophet 451 Jan 2015 #74

that's a load of crap. this was about religion samsingh Jan 2015 #76

I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE Skittles Jan 2015 #77

I find myself in agreement with that line... mike_c Jan 2015 #108

Well said. cbayer Jan 2015 #109

yes well, that said... mike_c Jan 2015 #112

Ah, I forgot you were the delusion guy. cbayer Jan 2015 #113

Terrible headline edhopper Jan 2015 #7

But, if you read it, these guys weren't really religious at all. cbayer Jan 2015 #9

They became radicalized edhopper Jan 2015 #12

Did they become radicalized? Where are you getting that information? cbayer Jan 2015 #13

I have read in numerous reports about Yemen. edhopper Jan 2015 #16

"May", "no evidence", "details not clear". cbayer Jan 2015 #18

Going to Yemen edhopper Jan 2015 #19

Training? Where do you get the information about training? cbayer Jan 2015 #20

From the NY Times edhopper Jan 2015 #24

I was not aware of that and appreciate the information. cbayer Jan 2015 #25

I agree edhopper Jan 2015 #27

In the end, the free speech is not at issue. cbayer Jan 2015 #31

I think edhopper Jan 2015 #38

what a ridiculous argument Cartoonist Jan 2015 #14

I ask that you answer honestly. Did you read the article or are you cbayer Jan 2015 #15

It's the same dumb argument that gets trotted out Cartoonist Jan 2015 #42

That is not at all what he says. cbayer Jan 2015 #43

Seems pretty clear to me what he is saying Cartoonist Jan 2015 #44

Well, that is not what he is saying but that is the version that fits your cbayer Jan 2015 #45

The quotes weren't in the headline. Cartoonist Jan 2015 #46

It's important to look at quotes in context. cbayer Jan 2015 #47

it's a sad attempt to let religion off the hook m-lekktor Jan 2015 #55

I'm going to guess that you also didn't read the article, cbayer Jan 2015 #56

Consider that by making this tragedy ALL ABOUT ISLAM, Maedhros Jan 2015 #133

Easy to spot motivated thinking and confirmation bias when it's not your own. Igel Jan 2015 #51

Ok, I've read this several times and I am having a lot of trouble cbayer Jan 2015 #59

The road that led from tough Paris estate to radical Yemen training muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #53

Thank you for doing the leg work edhopper Jan 2015 #57

Thanks for that information. cbayer Jan 2015 #58

Of course it wasn't. But, boy, some people are not going to like that POV. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #60

It has led to some very interesting conversations. cbayer Jan 2015 #61

I agree, and yours is a rare but wonderful point of view: those men were used. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #62

They made a choice. To call these murderers victims too is ridiculous. Leontius Jan 2015 #66

Yes, that is the story line being perpetrated by the media and by the men who sent them. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #67

That's just crap. They made a choice to kill it was their choice reinforced by their religious zeal. Leontius Jan 2015 #71

But I can not embrace them. cbayer Jan 2015 #94

You know that whole experience I had with incarcerated youth. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #97

I have also had many experiences when I felt a great deal of cbayer Jan 2015 #98

More, not just a Buddhist point of view, Jesus would have embraced them, too, these killers. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #64

Nonsense. phil89 Jan 2015 #106

You're right, because some people prefer facts. trotsky Jan 2015 #82

Religion is the main cover story used to promote an a-theistic political terroristic agenda. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #84

An "a-theistic political terroristic agenda"? trotsky Jan 2015 #85

Correct. Religion is simply the excuse used to cover this and to distract. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #88

No, you're wrong. The Paris terrorists were not following an "atheistic" agenda. trotsky Jan 2015 #93

I believe they thought they were acting on a religious mission, but were sent by agents... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #96

Religion Act_of_Reparation Jan 2015 #107

Indeed they are not. And extremists don't speak for the religion that they exploit. (nt) NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #119

Nonsensical gobbldegook. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2015 #121

Unless you can point out PRECISELY who they were 'played' by AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #117

Agents of Al Qaeda have taken credit for the attacks. Neither you nor I really know. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #123

I fully understand. The term 'true islam' is a logical fallacy, and the rest of your post is garbage AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #124

By the way. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #138

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #120

Did I strike a nerve? Make a point? Provoke you? NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #125

I am confused what you two are arguing about, is someone saying to you in essence randys1 Jan 2015 #128

I'm not sure why I got the response that I got from that member. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #129

I completely disagree with you but you have always been polite and nice to me so it wouldnt enter randys1 Jan 2015 #130

We are together on those points. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #131

I am a fan of a Canadian sitcom "Little Mosque on the Prairie" randys1 Jan 2015 #135

There's a great reply in another thread... NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #136

So the leaders edhopper Jan 2015 #89

I don't know with certainty what they think. They are morally corrupt. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #90

"a-thiests" Goblinmonger Jan 2015 #99

It's a kindness I extend to those who profess to be atheists on this board. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #100

You should not be using "a-theisim" to refer to... NeoGreen Jan 2015 #102

Great point and very well put. n/t trotsky Jan 2015 #104

The problem with your line of thinking Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #111

that is some tortured "logic" there skippy. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #110

the target of their angry, vicious attack was related to religion LiberalAndProud Jan 2015 #65

Religion was the cover story, but the reality is that they were sick. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #72

The deflection of responsibility in your post is nothing short of appalling. LiberalAndProud Jan 2015 #75

SKP has made this massacre all about SKP. Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #114

You tend to see things in the most convenient way possible tkmorris Jan 2015 #69

No. I think those who cast blame and hold fast to it are simplifying. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #73

We're all simplifying, the map is not the terrain Fumesucker Jan 2015 #79

I remember Az, he posted a lot in what was then called Religion/Theology. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #83

Oversimplification indeed. trotsky Jan 2015 #86

Religion is decidedly not the reason for terrorism, just as sex is not the reason for rape. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #87

"Religions teach love." trotsky Jan 2015 #91

Of course in your world the analogy fails. Because it doesn't. It kills your argument. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #92

If it is true Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #116

"Fundamentalist" = "Selective adherence" NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #118

Wrong again. *Every* believer practices selective adherence. trotsky Jan 2015 #122

The "good" believers Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #126

Fair enough. It's the downfall of belief systems. NYC_SKP Jan 2015 #127

Religious teachings are a light to illuminate your path in life Leontius Jan 2015 #132

The individual chooses what part of their holy book that they will use. Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #134

Because most humans are greedy self absorbed bastards who want their needs met whatever Leontius Jan 2015 #137

... Jamaal510 Jan 2015 #139

It's an article so I am going to assume you are addressing this to the author and not me. cbayer Jan 2015 #95

It was obviously religiously motivated. ZombieHorde Jan 2015 #78

I don't think it's about calling them liars, but about cbayer Jan 2015 #101

I agree. I think those that seek to divide use religion, race, sexuality and whatever they can Live and Learn Jan 2015 #80

Interesting perspective. cbayer Jan 2015 #103

Has anyone actually said "because Islam"? trotsky Jan 2015 #105

I'll give you one thing, cbayer. trotsky Jan 2015 #81