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African American

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1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:28 PM Feb 2016

JRLeft posted an OP in the GD:P ... [View all]

Bernie Sanders is going to have to speak on more issues affecting black people. He's right on the issues, but he has to speak to black in a different way than white people or else he's in trouble. I'm a Bernie supporter, but I won't sugarcoat anything.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511188565


that I wanted to comment on; but, will not do so in that forum ... because, quite frankly, I am not interested in seeing responsive comments from Non-Black DUers that routinely express their belief that they know Black people better than we know ourselves and show hostility to African-American peoples.

JRLeft, I agree that if Sanders is going to have to speak on more issues affecting black people, he has to speak to black in a different way than white people or else he's in trouble. But I think it will be a tough row to row for him, in that I think he, like most white liberals, has a fundamental mis-understanding of the Black condition in America, including Black poverty ... and therefore, his solutions are, largely, unappealing to all (most) but the "youngest", among the Black electorate. (More on the "Black generational divide" to follow)

As Coates recently wrote (again), in his Atlantic piece entitled: The Enduring Solidarity of Whiteness ...

black poverty (is) fundamentally distinct from white poverty ... (And) The pervasive and distinctive effects of racism are viewable at every level of education from high school drop-outs (see pages 13-14 of this Pew report, especially) to Ivy league graduates. I strongly suspect that if one were to investigate public-health outcomes, exposure to pollution, quality of public education or any other vector relating to socio-economic health, a similar pattern would emerge.


And Coates, goes on to ask:

A useful question might arise from such awareness: Has the impact of “universalist social policies” been equal across racial lines?


The honest answer to which, exposes why Sanders' understanding of the Black condition must (from a Black perspective)
change ... which would allow his language to change.

Now, with that said ... I have stated before that the Sanders campaign appears to have made the decision/gamble, early in its formation, that he could make up for his inability to attract the Black vote by attracting more of the working class white vote ... and, based on the Iowa and N.H. elections results ... Looking behind the numbers, the Bernie camp's battle plan/gamble appears to be working ... he has demonstrated that he could attract the white working class vote in sufficient numbers to, effectively, replaced the Black vote.

Now, maybe, N.H. is unique in it's "live free or die", anti-establishment, motto (that I can only assume applies to the Black folks that choose to live there, as well).

The problem is, and much of the Black electorate recalls/knows, ... it has been the Black experience in America that when the white working class comes together, it doesn't work out well for Black Americans, even when the gathering is started, or joined, by Black Americans (see: the tenant farmers/sharecroppers movement, the labor movement, and more recently, the Reagan republicans).

Further, it has been the Black experience in America that the "free" social programming that creates white stability and wealth, rarely, is "free", or stabilizing, or wealth producing, for Black Americans (see: social security, VA benefits, the public housing movement of the late '40s/early '50s, etc.)

Lastly, what the white Left, recently (it seems), refers to as, "the Establishment", includes the "Federal Government" ... the same Federal Government that protected the Black Freedman during Reconstruction, escorted the first Black students into integrated schools, enforced anti-discrimination laws, and was, as an (imperfect) employer, a/the most powerful builder of the Black middle-class. In short, the Black electorate has never been antagonistic with the Federal Government.

These are history points that "young" Black folks are mis-remembering, if they ever knew.

So, will Sanders make head way into the Black vote? ... Probably, so. But if he doesn't examine, and change, his understanding of the Black condition (and express that change in his language), that in-roads will be, largely, limited to the Black "youth".

Then, (or maybe, now) the question becomes/is for the Sanders camp: Will that be enough?

... And for the Black electorate the question becomes/is: without the change, and with history as a guide, what will our future look like with a Sanders presidency.

One more point ...

Should there be an "unchanged" Sanders Presidency, and history does what unlearned history does, woe be to the white left, as the "young" Blacks learn (re-learn) the lessons of history.

124 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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JRLeft posted an OP in the GD:P ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 OP
Agreed! FrenchieCat Feb 2016 #1
Ignoring the Violent Crime Act and Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Acts Jarqui Feb 2016 #2
Take a step back JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #3
"Did the white working class ... come together to vote for Clinton in 1992 and 1996?" Jarqui Feb 2016 #33
It was anger - especially in the mid 60's and 70's JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #40
Ugh, Awful. Sick. Jarqui Feb 2016 #47
2016 Race "Like Choosing Between Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #18
Fair point JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #19
I know! Sometimes politics makes Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #22
I feel like I need to take a shower JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #23
Oh, when I was coming up Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #27
Have you seen the numbers of people that voted in New Hampshire?? Number23 Feb 2016 #112
A poster came in last night JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #115
I was thinking of editing the OP to read ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #29
That's a good idea. But she's too deliciously hated Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #35
I quadruple JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #41
Nader was the one who said Bush and Gore were Tweedledum and Tweedledee. pnwmom Feb 2016 #73
Continue to blame shift. It's easy Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #86
What does this have to do with shifting blame? Nothing. This is about Nader's poor judgment. pnwmom Feb 2016 #87
You explained exactly what I meant Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #88
You took Nader's comparison to have a very narrow meaning, but there was no reason to do so. pnwmom Feb 2016 #92
I claim your view is narrow Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #93
This OP has NOTHING to do with HRC, thank you for your attention. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #25
Sorry, didn't see this before my last post Jarqui Feb 2016 #36
My point is/was you clearly did not read the OP ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #39
The op laid out things Sanders needed to do and to me, it didn't seem Jarqui Feb 2016 #43
This part has been puzzling to me too. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #4
Ta-Nehisi Coates Is Voting for Bernie Sanders Despite the Senator's Opposition to Reparations azurnoir Feb 2016 #5
I think this is the opinion of 1strongblackman JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #7
which leaders are you speaking of? azurnoir Feb 2016 #11
Politicians, Talking Heads and Journalist Wanna Be Politicians JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #13
who's speaking about anyone being savior, personaly I've never said that about any politician azurnoir Feb 2016 #15
I agree some are better than others JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #17
I've got a couple of other questions for you azurnoir Feb 2016 #21
I don't know JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #24
well first off COGIC is Church of G-d in Christ azurnoir Feb 2016 #28
Why are you in my OP, addressing everything accept what is is the OP? 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #31
We're off topic aren't we? JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #34
it started with my comment about Ta-Nehisi Coates azurnoir Feb 2016 #38
Ahh - JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #32
We discuss these things amongst ourselves. Black people try not to give fodder Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #106
Great news. N/t azmom Feb 2016 #9
I'm trying to figure out what that has to do with this OP Number23 Feb 2016 #113
Coates.Is.Black ... that is all. 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #116
I was hoping there was something more but I think you nailed it. Number23 Feb 2016 #120
You better than that! eom. 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #123
Yes. White people keep trying to ignore profound systemic differences between their own mhatrw Feb 2016 #6
The white left does not want to be educated JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #10
IMHO, Sanders wants to be educated, and deaf, dumb and blind on race is a white problem, not a mhatrw Feb 2016 #44
Sanders wants to win JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #48
All Americans want to win. But those who want a more even playing field mhatrw Feb 2016 #49
Sanders is a Poltician who wants to win JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #50
"JRLeft, I agree that if Sanders is going Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #8
Are you kidding me with that? JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #12
Yes, and I believe Brodek. Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #14
Yikes! JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #16
Oh, that was from last year Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #20
If he is the nominee JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #26
I agree completely, JAG! Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #30
That is disappointing, and unfortunate ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #45
That comment has been over at BAR for awhile, now Chitown Kev Feb 2016 #85
As always, thought provoking ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #37
Great post Gothmog Feb 2016 #42
Posting to for later. lovemydog Feb 2016 #46
Per this comment randys1 Feb 2016 #51
K&R! Tarheel_Dem Feb 2016 #52
Huh? Depaysement Feb 2016 #53
So black America JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #55
Exactly who said that? Depaysement Feb 2016 #58
See bettyellens response 61 JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #64
I read bettyellen's response Depaysement Feb 2016 #65
I'm 42 - The Eternal Fairy Godmother JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #67
You know nothing about me Depaysement Feb 2016 #96
Is this you saying,:"Get over it"? ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #75
No Depaysement Feb 2016 #95
I don't understand? Are you talking about me, personally? ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #100
Ok, that worked for you Depaysement Feb 2016 #101
Okay. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #103
How is one a victim of history? kwassa Feb 2016 #110
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #56
Two points Depaysement Feb 2016 #60
it is the job/duty of elders and mentors ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #62
Like JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #71
When Bernie talks about free college but not inner city high schools or bettyellen Feb 2016 #57
You're right Depaysement Feb 2016 #59
And it may not be sexy to admit it- but it ain't going to be easy, and it should be a top bettyellen Feb 2016 #61
I'd like to see five years dedicated JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #70
NY State tried to rectify it's formula to even things out through court cases, they won bettyellen Feb 2016 #72
No, he wouldn't be shocked ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #63
I know he was utterly shocked to find out that people go to jail for not paying tickets..... bettyellen Feb 2016 #66
The schools are deliberate JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #68
"If he becomes President and makes one - we find someone to primary him in 2020." sheshe2 Feb 2016 #82
Which won't work! JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #69
which reminds me- I might have been in your neck on NJ last week..... bettyellen Feb 2016 #79
Please do! JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #97
Nespresso and baked good are my jam! I am with Ms B getting lectured on "tactics" HA. bettyellen Feb 2016 #98
White schools receive newer books, and technology black schools get used shit. JRLeft Feb 2016 #78
or nothing. have had friends teaching english with no books- she paid for paper to make bettyellen Feb 2016 #80
I remember my teacher charging us $00.5 for losing a page. JRLeft Feb 2016 #81
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #89
Sometimes black schools receive books that are 2-3 editions behind. JRLeft Feb 2016 #90
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #91
Of course the Federal government is a key part of "the establishment.' So why does pnwmom Feb 2016 #74
Because the establishment is more than one institution, the federal government. jonestonesusa Feb 2016 #77
Agreed, that's why I said he needs to make inroads with black millennials. JRLeft Feb 2016 #54
Thanks 1SB and all posting here lovemydog Feb 2016 #76
Very interesting thread, thank you! nt betsuni Feb 2016 #83
KnR sheshe2 Feb 2016 #84
Great conversation! FrenchieCat Feb 2016 #94
I wonder when the last time someone said that about a GD:P thread? eom 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #99
these are my thoughts to a T bigtree Feb 2016 #102
I was not aware of the CBC endorsement until just this morning ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #104
gotta love the tiff that's popped up about who's actually endorsing bigtree Feb 2016 #105
Could not agree more w/ " The notion of tearing these folks down in a revolution.... bettyellen Feb 2016 #114
I mostly agree with what you and JRLeft wrote aikoaiko Feb 2016 #107
I have to disagree on Bernie's calculations or lack thereof..... FrenchieCat Feb 2016 #108
I would agree; but, for different reasons ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #109
This is wonderful! How the heck did I miss this?? Number23 Feb 2016 #111
I loved the back and forth that the goes on in the AA Group ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #117
ITA JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #118
Prop 8 was so bad here it was ridiculous. Chitown Kev has even alluded to it and he wasn't even on Number23 Feb 2016 #122
I'm way ahead of you on the taking a break thing. I've already started Number23 Feb 2016 #121
I hear you ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #124
K&R Jamaal510 Feb 2016 #119
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