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Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 26, 2012, 06:58 PM

45. I think you're headed in the wrong direction

Last edited Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:16 AM - Edit history (2)

I agree that laws regarding safe storage, trigger locks and adequate security are a good idea. I favor these laws being prima facie rather than absolute. If you're familiar with California speed limits, they are prima facie. Exceeding the speed limit upon citation and testimony of law enforcement does not guarantee a conviction as long as you're able to prove that your speed and operation was reasonable for the conditions at the time and place. Laws regarding safety and security seldom lend themselves to absolutes and laws carved in stone. What is completely reckless in one situation may be reasonable in another.

I assume from your quoting the $33 billion losses that you're expecting the insurance to pay for these. The further breakdown showing that $1 billion should go to doctors, nurses and hospitals presumably to pay for uninsured folks who injure or kill themselves in suicide attempts. Knowing that one would get paid for treating a shooting suicide but maybe not a poisoning suicide wouldn't bias anyone would it? The other $32 billion in productivity losses, who gets that/those checks? If they are losses to our national economy shouldn't everyone get one? Some quick calculator work tells me that would average about $120/gun/year in premiums and around $100/year in payments to every man, woman and child in the country.

Thinking about those premiums and payments makes me wonder if the additional $8-9 billion (minimally) that insurance administration would add to the $33 billion is worth it since the primary folks affected by suicide are the ones attempting to kill themselves. I would say most of the losses are due to those successfully killing themselves no longer collecting a paycheck for the next 5 months up to maybe 50 years. So while it's true that the income is lost, the person is also dead and unable to collect and spend it. Other folks try and fail to kill themselves. I guess a fair percentage become disabled and possibly even more likely to try again.

We have seen from several of these mass shootings the shooters are often mentally ill. Maybe mental health is the right place to start. Other countries have not just better overall healthcare than we do but better mental health care in particular.

Just some shooting stats from the CDC:
Fatal accidental shootings = 554
Fatal shootings of undetermined intent = 232
Murders = 11,493
Suicides = 18,735

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf see table 10.

Legal invention deaths = 395 and while not broken down by means, I think it's safe to assume that the majority of those are police shootings, civilian and military.

I shot competitively for 10 years. I never damaged a gun not even slightly. If you have firearm losses due to theft or misplacement that exceed $100/year, IMHO you have no business owning any.

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Dog Gone at Penigma Dec 2012 OP
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LineLineLineReply I think you're headed in the wrong direction
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