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Reply #8


Response to Dog Gone at Penigma (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 12:28 PM

8. Quit with the innuendo and do some research

Numerous polls show that there is a significant consensus for MORE not less gun regulation and enforcement, even among gun owners, and even among NRA members.

That depends who is doing the push polling. (Clue: Its done by both sides). Louisiana passed a gun rights referendum this month. How does that square with your perception of the desire of most people for more gun control laws?

That is where the disconnect occurs that demonstrates the NRA is more interested (and probably has more money coming in to them) from the gun manufacturers than members --- and there actions are reflected accordingly.

Everything the NRA does is to promote gun sales, and that includes unrestricted gun sales to crazy people who engage in mass shootings. as well as lots of sales to criminals, drug dealing cartels through straw purchasers -- ANY and ALL sales.

The NRA accomplishes this not only through the money they openly spread around on behalf of gun manufacturers, but also through the actions of ALEC and similar unregistered lobbying activities where they put money directly and indirectly into the pockets of conservative politicians who in exchange willingly enact the legislation that the special interests - including the NRA - write for them.

The NRA's books are open. You will find that vast majority of income for the NRA comes from members, not the gun industry. Its focus is on safety, instructor certification, and training programs. It gets nothing from the sale of guns, though the states and feds do.

Now for the real kicker...the NRA does not spend a dime on politics. It is not allowed to. There is a separate organization called the NRA-ILA. No member dues are allowed to go there. It asks for and gets contributions from many members and others.

Gun manufacturers have a separate group, not the NRA. There are also other trade associations and gun rights groups.

The NRA has never supported gun sales to those not allowed to have them. That includes crazies and criminals. They have never support straw purchases. As for selling to cartels, you will have to check with the Feds about that...the FFLs were directed by them to allow the transactions to go through.

THAT is what grass roots groups are up against, it isn't a lack of desire, it is organized and extremely well funded opposition. That they also get gullible gun nuts to go along with this is part of why this is a problem. How can anyone take seriously as an honest advocate an organization that includes in its leadership someone like Ted Nugent? They are advocates - but not for gun owners; they are lobbyist, but largely unregistered, corrupt, illegal lobbyists.

There are few grass roots groups against guns. The high profile ones (VPC, Brady, etc) are miniscule in membership and supported by outside benefactors. You are much more likely to be convicted of a felony if your belong to MAIG (Mayors Against Illegal Guns) than if you have a CCW. Seems to me the gullible ones are those who swallowing the Bloomberg and the Brady bunch lies.

Guns are destructive, they are lawless, they are a serious public health issue. Sooner or later, the gun nuts will have to stop sticking their thumbs in their ears, wiggling their fingers, and yelling how patriotic they are -- guns are not patriotic, there is NO legal validity to overthrowing our government, and guns do far more harm in homes to the people who live there than they do good.

Typical unsupported emotional screed, but at least its clear that it is just hyperbole.

You cannot find that many verifiable, demonstrable, provable instances of firearms protecting people; not even close
.
Honest people participating in discussions do not make such statements, since Defense Gun Use (DGU) is impossible to document. Hyperbole like yours is found on both sides. The problem is that the vast majority of DGUs are unreported and undocumented. Both sides make their claims, but there is nothing to base it on. IME, there has been one reported incident of DGU in our family (late wife double tapped a home invader), but there have been others unreported, since no one was shot. I am not willing to state that my experience is typical, but it is also clearly not unique.


Long screeds like yours are part of the problem of the anti gun movement. After someone like me demonstrates the clear factual holes, the rest is rejected and the speaker/poster is relegated to the bozo bin in the mind of the recipient. Literally the more you write, the more you impeach yourself, and you history shows you love your screeds.

If you hope to be an effective advocate for additional gun control, you will have to take a more reasoned and rational approach. Start with learning something about the technical side of the subject. Most antis fail there, making them easy to debunk. The emotionalism is easy to spew, but is insufficient by its self to carry the day.





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SecularMotion Nov 2012 OP
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sir pball Nov 2012 #64
discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2012 #25
LineLineLineReply Quit with the innuendo and do some research
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #8
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