Gun Control & RKBA

spin

(17,493 posts)

91. Not at all necessary ...

Fri Aug 10, 2012, 11:53 AM

Aug 2012

Gun sales have skyrocketed and the practice of allowing "shall issue" concealed carry has spread across our nation since 1987. The crime rate has actually decreased rather than increased.

(source: http://firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com/2012/01/total-nics-background-checks-november.html)

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_States)

I don't disagree that the dropping crime rate might not be due to more guns or allowing concealed carry as there are indeed many factors in the violent crime equation to consider.

However if more firearms and allowing more citizens to legally carry concealed were truly important factors, surely the violent crime rate would have [b[increased dramatically.

It should be your job to explain why this didn't happen as I don't disagree with you that they are the most important factors causing the decrease in crime.

Please do so.

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121 replies

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Gun ownership up, crime down [View all] rDigital Aug 2012 OP

Well, if it isn't right-wing propaganda from the good old Washington Times! DanTex Aug 2012 #1

Nice dodge rDigital Aug 2012 #2

LOL. The issue is that you are posting right-wing propaganda! DanTex Aug 2012 #3

Umm discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #5

Thread disruption? The OP is an article from the Washington Times! DanTex Aug 2012 #6

While some may... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #9

Ever watch C SPAN Washington Journal? gejohnston Aug 2012 #15

Instead of bashing the source Missycim Aug 2012 #66

can you dispute the FBI statistic? gejohnston Aug 2012 #8

Come on, you know the FBI is funded by the NRA! nt Remmah2 Aug 2012 #96

What about the CDC and the BATFE? nt rDigital Sep 2012 #121

The FBI's UCR is RW propoganda? Equate Aug 2012 #20

FBI spelled backwards is NRA. nt Remmah2 Aug 2012 #84

So that's it. Equate Aug 2012 #85

I've never known numbers to carry a political bias 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #26

Really, I've known many that did. Pholus Aug 2012 #56

No you haven't 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #93

Numbers are synthesized, hence they can be political. Pholus Aug 2012 #98

Could you tell me the political slant of 4? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #99

Well, 6 is afraid of 7.... Pholus Aug 2012 #102

No, my dear Pholus 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #105

An understanding of real data is NEVER embarassing, thanks. Pholus Aug 2012 #109

Hmmmmm... TPaine7 Aug 2012 #30

I think I agree with Tex rock Aug 2012 #87

Washington Times spelled backwards is FOX? nt Remmah2 Aug 2012 #95

Looks like better law enforcement, surveillance, aging population, etc., is working. Hoyt Aug 2012 #4

Awesome 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #27

Ask families of victims of Zim, Stawicki, Loughner, Holmes and unreported intimidation by Hoyt Aug 2012 #38

Appeal to emotion 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #41

Every ad that helped sell you a gun, appealed to your emotions. Hoyt Aug 2012 #42

Not really. 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #43

A perfect application of your definition: Pholus Aug 2012 #67

However if skyrocketing gun ownership and concealed carry were large factors in the equation ... spin Aug 2012 #89

Cut and pasted NRA Talking points? Easily refuted.... Pholus Aug 2012 #7

But we can say that more guns did not lead to more violence, correct? hack89 Aug 2012 #10

Way to divert, but sorry that isn't the point of the OP. Pholus Aug 2012 #14

The problem everyone who legally buys a gun is a responsible gun-owner Homer12 Aug 2012 #16

And everyone who buys a car Equate Aug 2012 #21

At least the car driver had training. Pholus Aug 2012 #51

Which has nothing to do with my comment. Equate Aug 2012 #74

Perhaps the poorly written OP should have considered that instead. Pholus Aug 2012 #75

Ok, I'll concede that Equate Aug 2012 #76

You've stated a reasonable hypothesis. Pholus Aug 2012 #78

Very good post Equate Aug 2012 #81

So the problem is complicated, to say the least. Pholus Aug 2012 #97

I like your sentence 3 Equate Aug 2012 #107

As do I! Pholus Aug 2012 #111

Then why so many teenage driving related deaths? Remmah2 Aug 2012 #86

Who says the car driver "actually took a competency test first that had consequences for failure"? Jenoch Aug 2012 #103

Yes and the penalties are probably way too light. Pholus Aug 2012 #104

How about letting non violent drug offenders out on probation Equate Aug 2012 #108

As could I... nt Pholus Aug 2012 #112

Recently, Zimmy, Stawicki, Loughner, not sure about Holmes, good examples. Hoyt Aug 2012 #44

Eastwood and Bronson come to mind... Pholus Aug 2012 #52

That's not true. Jenoch Aug 2012 #106

Clearly the reasons for historically low levels of gun violence are many hack89 Aug 2012 #18

Actually, my magic rock is what protected us. Pholus Aug 2012 #47

So you have one of those too? Mine is grey with red specks. nt hack89 Aug 2012 #61

Yours sounds awesome! Nope mine is deep red with embedded quartz... Pholus Aug 2012 #64

and tigers. As well as dinosaurs. Pholus Aug 2012 #65

Damn Equate Aug 2012 #110

Where is this *only* coming from? TPaine7 Aug 2012 #24

Oooooh, Mr. Lawyer! What a brilliant loophole you found! Pholus Aug 2012 #49

You emphasized the "only" concept. TPaine7 Aug 2012 #113

Perhaps. You're weaving yourself quite nicely. Pholus Aug 2012 #114

You know what, I think you have a point. TPaine7 Aug 2012 #115

And I am sorry... Pholus Aug 2012 #117

No problem. No problem whatsoever. TPaine7 Aug 2012 #119

Every anecdote involving gun violence is proof that guns are the problems 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #28

Part of problem, and one big enough to need some change. Hoyt Aug 2012 #45

Wow, you get it! Pholus Aug 2012 #50

Not at all necessary ... spin Aug 2012 #91

I'll get right on that... Pholus Aug 2012 #101

No problem. (n/t) spin Aug 2012 #116

It forgot to mention that Mass Murder is up Homer12 Aug 2012 #11

rare events are anecdotes gejohnston Aug 2012 #17

Tell that to CERN... Pholus Aug 2012 #62

Do you remember a few years back when we had an epidemic of pretty white girls being kidnapped? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #29

And home invasions are down thanks to semi-autos capable of repelling multiple assailants. Remmah2 Aug 2012 #83

Will Rdigital champion the 2nd Adm rights of Mass Murderers? Homer12 Aug 2012 #12

waiting.... Homer12 Aug 2012 #13

Will Homer12 treat every American as a potential Mass Murderer? hack89 Aug 2012 #19

Are all gun owners guilty (????)until proven innocent? nt rDigital Aug 2012 #22

When they occupy the same room as me, yes. Pholus Aug 2012 #53

Must be nice Missycim Aug 2012 #69

I'm describing risk mitigation. Sorry you take it personally. Pholus Aug 2012 #70

Dont flatter yourself Missycim Aug 2012 #71

That's why we wouldn't meet in real life. I have standards. Pholus Aug 2012 #72

I dont seek Missycim Aug 2012 #73

If you were in the same room as me, Equate Aug 2012 #79

Ahh, but that merely marks you as more sane. Pholus Aug 2012 #80

And I have nothing but contempt for people like that Equate Aug 2012 #82

And based on *that* statement... Pholus Aug 2012 #100

Gun rights are not a partisan issue rDigital Aug 2012 #23

we are also getting more obese . . . I think that leads to less crime DrDan Aug 2012 #36

Interesting. I'd never thought of that, but it's probably a factor. Thanks! n/t TPaine7 Aug 2012 #37

Good point. Equate Aug 2012 #39

Crime down, gun ownership up. Bonhomme Richard Aug 2012 #25

so . . . do you think that the reason for this decrease is because of the increase in guns? DrDan Aug 2012 #31

Are the two statistics connected? JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #32

The only thing that is clear is that more guns do not equal more violence hack89 Aug 2012 #40

I recall the argument in 2004 JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #48

Thank you for writing that! Pholus Aug 2012 #55

I don't believe that more guns led to less gun violence hack89 Aug 2012 #68

that logic is SIMPLY BOGUS DrDan Aug 2012 #58

But we live in a less violent society by every measure hack89 Aug 2012 #63

Just don't go to the movies. liberal N proud Aug 2012 #33

College enrollment up, crime rates down. Arctic Dave Aug 2012 #34

I personally think more guns lead to obesity DrDan Aug 2012 #35

If someone were to make the argument that more ice cream necessarily means more crime 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #46

Only if you have a single independent variable. Pholus Aug 2012 #54

In this scenaro they have claimed it is only about the ice-cream 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #92

Hmm loansstore Aug 2012 #57

During this same time frame, 25 years. the eradication of Lead in the environment WCGreen Aug 2012 #59

Thank you! That is now number 8 on my list! Pholus Aug 2012 #60

Older Housing/Older Neighborhoods; Poverty Sucks Remmah2 Aug 2012 #88

with just a small chunk of that $800+ gejohnston Aug 2012 #90

I'd like to see the old neighborhoods torn down. Remmah2 Aug 2012 #94

The sun is up and the cock roaches scurry. Lint Head Aug 2012 #77

Wow bongbong Aug 2012 #118

The main premise rDigital Aug 2012 #120