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Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
30. Holmes used that analogy to support the " Espionage Act of 1917" used to squash anti-draft efforts
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:14 PM
Aug 2012

The Espionage Act of 1917, which was amended with the Sedition Act of 1918, made it illegal to distribute flyers opposing the use of the draft during WWI. This was challenged as being unconstitutional because it violated the right to free speech while the government's position was that such activities presented a clear and present danger to the government's efforts to recruit men for the war. The Supreme Court ruled in support of the legality of the Act and Justice Holmes used the analogy of falsely yelling fire in a movie theater in support of that decision.

"The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent."

The 1969 Brandenburg v. Ohio case overturned that view and "limited banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater

The Brandenburg v. Ohio decision essentially prohibits the government from prohibiting anyone from falsely yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theater. However, one still can be held liable after the fact for the consequences of their exercising their right to free speech.



Wonder if Skelton knows you can buy AR's in Cali? ileus Aug 2012 #1
And those in the gun culture love loopholes, grandfathering and other such crud that allows those Hoyt Aug 2012 #2
so if all that gear isnt grandfathered in Missycim Aug 2012 #3
If you someday lose money on your guns, tough. Just another "investment" in lethal weapons Hoyt Aug 2012 #10
In other words.... PavePusher Aug 2012 #16
The 4th is already effectively near dead. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #20
I know kind of makes you sick doesn't it to read this on a progressive site Missycim Aug 2012 #26
There are many progressives here, thanks. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #34
look up the definition of internet troll gejohnston Aug 2012 #37
I was referring to the regressive right wing trolls who lurk here pretending to be Dems. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #39
are you serious? gejohnston Aug 2012 #40
Progressive to me means evolving, not devolving. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #41
your definition is a value judgement gejohnston Aug 2012 #42
Of course it's a value judgement. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #43
you missed the point gejohnston Aug 2012 #44
Pave, it's similar to how I feel if a bankster goes down the tubes for immoral investments. Hoyt Aug 2012 #28
It doesn't work that way Missycim Aug 2012 #24
I don't think you have to pay FMV if you simply say you can't buy or sell them. Hoyt Aug 2012 #29
You opinions mean squat Missycim Aug 2012 #33
spirit of the law....Snork ileus Aug 2012 #5
Sad fact is, you have everything upside down. Starboard Tack Aug 2012 #35
Prove it. n/t Clames Aug 2012 #36
Problem is, the "spirit of the law" wouldn't stand up in court. Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #6
You wouldn't end up in court if you stopped your eternal quest for the most lethal weapons you can Hoyt Aug 2012 #11
Is that really where ya wanna go? Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #13
"Guns" are in a totally different category than what you listed. Hoyt Aug 2012 #15
Guns have also been used to protect those rights. HALO141 Aug 2012 #17
Most rights can be used badly Glaug-Eldare Aug 2012 #25
you of course meant target firearms....plinking family fun. ileus Aug 2012 #14
Wrong hands Speaker Aug 2012 #22
Would you care to define what TBaggers consider the wrong hands? Hoyt Aug 2012 #31
Who defines reasonable? You? Travis_0004 Aug 2012 #38
The law is unjust in spirit. NewMoonTherian Aug 2012 #23
Why can't you just admit you can't define an "assault weapon"? krispos42 Aug 2012 #32
California has *more* rifle homicide than the national average, not less. benEzra Aug 2012 #4
More anti-gun disinformation guardian Aug 2012 #7
So much for "California has been doing a pretty good job on gun control." friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #27
Suffocating. Clames Aug 2012 #8
As if these aren't all CA legal AR-15's?!? X_Digger Aug 2012 #9
Crime rates in CA are much higher than in CO 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #12
no it is proof that crime rates are complicated Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #18
Like anyone who says "if we legalize this gun blood will run in the streets"? 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #19
yes, and all the idiotic arguments on the other side too. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #21
Holmes used that analogy to support the " Espionage Act of 1917" used to squash anti-draft efforts Kaleva Aug 2012 #30
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