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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: Why are people blaming the gun or the "arsenal" for Aurora? Read before commenting please. [View all]gejohnston
(17,502 posts)86. miss the larger picture
Well, of course the guns themselves aren't to blame, but we live in a culture that is largely obsessed with them to the point that gun ownership to many is a higher priority than education, or healthcare.
Kind of a false choice really, they are not mutually exclusive in themselves, although the current climate seems that way. I think Criminologist James Wright said it best at a 1995 congressional hearing:
And then, finally, my tenth observation is that guns are
important elements of our history and our culture. Attempts to
control crime by regulating the ownership or use of firearms are
attempts to regulate the artifacts and activities of a culture that
in its_own_way is as_unique_as any of the other myriad cultures that
comprise the American ethnic mosaic. This is what is referred to as
the American gun culture, about which many have written, and, I
important elements of our history and our culture. Attempts to
control crime by regulating the ownership or use of firearms are
attempts to regulate the artifacts and activities of a culture that
in its_own_way is as_unique_as any of the other myriad cultures that
comprise the American ethnic mosaic. This is what is referred to as
the American gun culture, about which many have written, and, I
And then, finally, my tenth observation is that guns are
important elements of our history and our culture. Attempts to
control crime by regulating the ownership or use of firearms are
attempts to regulate the artifacts and activities of a culture that
in its_own_way is as_unique_as any of the other myriad cultures that
comprise the American ethnic mosaic. This is what is referred to as
the American gun culture, about which many have written, and, I
believe it remains among the_least_understood_of any of the various
subcultural strands that make up modern society.
The existence and characteristics of the American gun culture
also have implications that are rarely appreciated. For one, gun
control deals with matters that people feel_strongly_about, that are
part of their background, and their heritage, and their upbringing
...and their_worldview._ Advocates for gun control are frequently
taken aback by the_stridency_with which their seemingly modest and
sensible proposals are attacked. But from the gun culture's point
of view, restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms amount to
the systematic destruction of a valued way of life, and are, in that
sense, a form of cultural genocide. Scholars, and criminologists,
and legislators, who speculate on the problem of guns and crime
and violence would, I think, profit to look at things, at least
occasionally, from the gun culture's point of view.
There are about 50,000,000 U.S. families who own firearms, and
hardly_any_of these families have ever harmed_anyone_with their
guns, and virtually none ever_intend_to. Nearly_everything_these
families will ever_do_with their guns is both_legal,_and largely
innocuous. So when we advocate restrictions on their_rights_to own
guns, as a means to fighting crime, we are casting aspersions on
_their_decency, as though we somehow hold_them_responsible for
the crime and violence that plague the nation. Is it any wonder
they object often loudly and vocifero
believe it remains among the_least_understood_of any of the various
subcultural strands that make up modern society.
The existence and characteristics of the American gun culture
also have implications that are rarely appreciated. For one, gun
control deals with matters that people feel_strongly_about, that are
part of their background, and their heritage, and their upbringing
...and their_worldview._ Advocates for gun control are frequently
taken aback by the_stridency_with which their seemingly modest and
sensible proposals are attacked. But from the gun culture's point
of view, restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms amount to
the systematic destruction of a valued way of life, and are, in that
sense, a form of cultural genocide. Scholars, and criminologists,
and legislators, who speculate on the problem of guns and crime
and violence would, I think, profit to look at things, at least
occasionally, from the gun culture's point of view.
There are about 50,000,000 U.S. families who own firearms, and
hardly_any_of these families have ever harmed_anyone_with their
guns, and virtually none ever_intend_to. Nearly_everything_these
families will ever_do_with their guns is both_legal,_and largely
innocuous. So when we advocate restrictions on their_rights_to own
guns, as a means to fighting crime, we are casting aspersions on
_their_decency, as though we somehow hold_them_responsible for
the crime and violence that plague the nation. Is it any wonder
they object often loudly and vociferously to such slander?
important elements of our history and our culture. Attempts to
control crime by regulating the ownership or use of firearms are
attempts to regulate the artifacts and activities of a culture that
in its_own_way is as_unique_as any of the other myriad cultures that
comprise the American ethnic mosaic. This is what is referred to as
the American gun culture, about which many have written, and, I
believe it remains among the_least_understood_of any of the various
subcultural strands that make up modern society.
The existence and characteristics of the American gun culture
also have implications that are rarely appreciated. For one, gun
control deals with matters that people feel_strongly_about, that are
part of their background, and their heritage, and their upbringing
...and their_worldview._ Advocates for gun control are frequently
taken aback by the_stridency_with which their seemingly modest and
sensible proposals are attacked. But from the gun culture's point
of view, restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms amount to
the systematic destruction of a valued way of life, and are, in that
sense, a form of cultural genocide. Scholars, and criminologists,
and legislators, who speculate on the problem of guns and crime
and violence would, I think, profit to look at things, at least
occasionally, from the gun culture's point of view.
There are about 50,000,000 U.S. families who own firearms, and
hardly_any_of these families have ever harmed_anyone_with their
guns, and virtually none ever_intend_to. Nearly_everything_these
families will ever_do_with their guns is both_legal,_and largely
innocuous. So when we advocate restrictions on their_rights_to own
guns, as a means to fighting crime, we are casting aspersions on
_their_decency, as though we somehow hold_them_responsible for
the crime and violence that plague the nation. Is it any wonder
they object often loudly and vocifero
believe it remains among the_least_understood_of any of the various
subcultural strands that make up modern society.
The existence and characteristics of the American gun culture
also have implications that are rarely appreciated. For one, gun
control deals with matters that people feel_strongly_about, that are
part of their background, and their heritage, and their upbringing
...and their_worldview._ Advocates for gun control are frequently
taken aback by the_stridency_with which their seemingly modest and
sensible proposals are attacked. But from the gun culture's point
of view, restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms amount to
the systematic destruction of a valued way of life, and are, in that
sense, a form of cultural genocide. Scholars, and criminologists,
and legislators, who speculate on the problem of guns and crime
and violence would, I think, profit to look at things, at least
occasionally, from the gun culture's point of view.
There are about 50,000,000 U.S. families who own firearms, and
hardly_any_of these families have ever harmed_anyone_with their
guns, and virtually none ever_intend_to. Nearly_everything_these
families will ever_do_with their guns is both_legal,_and largely
innocuous. So when we advocate restrictions on their_rights_to own
guns, as a means to fighting crime, we are casting aspersions on
_their_decency, as though we somehow hold_them_responsible for
the crime and violence that plague the nation. Is it any wonder
they object often loudly and vociferously to such slander?
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Why are people blaming the gun or the "arsenal" for Aurora? Read before commenting please. [View all]
shadowrider
Jul 2012
OP
I didn't say he wasn't responsible. I said he has a condition that should have been
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#3
The immediate call for increased gun control tells me the gun(s) are being blamed
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#5
yes there are other ways. So best not to do anything to make it less easy.
Warren Stupidity
Jul 2012
#12
Those examples you offered don't prove knives can cause just as much damage as guns.
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#23
Are dead only dead if killed with guns in your view or do other means mean nothing?
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#44
Please cite for me some examples of a single individual killing a dozen or more people within minute
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#171
You don't think being able to kill from a distance makes killing more effective?
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#25
Indeed. You DON'T often hear of a single person managing to kill over a dozen people...
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#167
I didn't say they shouldn't be gun free but explain to me how you enforce it?
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#11
I said nothing of decriminalizing it. I asked how you enforce a no gun zone
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#32
I blame our idiotic gun culture and the absurd availability of weapons.
Warren Stupidity
Jul 2012
#10
Yep. Without the guns this disturbed young man would likely not have done as much damage.
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#16
NOW you're getting it. Why wasn't this "unbalanced individual" treated when by all
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#18
Good. Mental health services in this particular case could have averted this tragedy.
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#90
Dude, get the memo. You're more dead if killed with a gun. Theyz evil I say n/t
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#33
Yes, I really think this guy would have been less likely to kill and maim the people he did
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#114
His ability to kill a lot of people plainly was limited, because his attempt at it WITHOUT a gun
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#121
If he didn't have a gun he could be crazy as a loon and those people would have enjoyed their movie
upaloopa
Jul 2012
#27
Sure. And the police department has been trying for a day and a half to get into
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#34
And yet, as you pointed out, unbalanced people have been known to use knives...
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#37
I chose to point out the math. As horrible as those attacks were, they did not leave as many killed
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#43
"Projection" is when someone ascribes his or her own attitudes and faults to others.
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#82
Yes, "less lethal" means that people who would have been likely killed in a gun attack
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#55
No. I'm saying you're discounting other means of mass murder and insisting guns are
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#59
Actually, I believe they said he was planning it as far as four months ahead.
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#84
Toting guns into public places takes no time and care. You already know your
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#99
And yet, isn't it interesting that most of the worst mass killings in this country
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#165
For the same reason you don't march onto certain military installations or parts of
Pamela Troy
Jul 2012
#187
Military and linquistic history have no bearing on the average American's feelings on the 2nd Amend.
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#87
The numbers are immaterial. They are instruments of death and both should both legal or illegal.
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#97
Who's to say in 20 or 50 or 100 years that nukes won't be cheap and handheld?
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#103
Why does 1 direction and target make a difference? The Second Amendment makes no such distinction.
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#107
I think you are misjudging the amount of fissionable material necessary for a bomb.
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#129
I think you are misjudging the level of sophistication and what it exactly takes to achieve...
Clames
Jul 2012
#130
Compare the size and calculative power of today's computers with those from 50 years ago
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#133
You seem to be forgetting that technology shrinks and improves over time. It doesn't stagnate.
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#148
You seem to think because it can't be done now, it can never be done. Your ignorance here is galling
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#150
If environmental impact was a cause for illegality, then millions would be without power, cars, jobs
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#163
You only think it's sh*t because it uses your argument to defend the indefensible
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#109
If you look at the termonology of "keep and bear arms" you need to determine what "arms" are
rl6214
Jul 2012
#139
The *availability* of legal *fertilizer* and legal *diesel fuel* enabled McVeigh to kill 168
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#69
There is no Federal Department of Needs. What someone can afford to buy is their
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#85
You could start by explaining how guns that weren't used in the CO shooting are relevant...
beevul
Jul 2012
#142
Disagree...he should not of had a gun or guns or explosives....but he did and we
movonne
Jul 2012
#71
At the very least, we shouldn't be making guns so easily available to disturbed
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#112
Which is my point. Personally, I think the guy should fry in a big time way.
shadowrider
Jul 2012
#146
Think what you want, but he should not have been able to gain access to such lethal equipment.
jonthebru
Jul 2012
#177
The Problem with the Argument "Guns Don't Kill People -- People Kill People" Is
On the Road
Jul 2012
#183