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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: Amid ATF Fast And Furious Scandal, House Democrats Point To Weak Gun Laws [View all]DanTex
(20,709 posts)18. First, it's not just a question of whether something is illegal.
It's also a question of how effective the laws are in terms of catching and prosecuting criminals.
Second, the statute in question is not about international gun running. It is about gun trafficking within the US -- straw purchasing, basically. Right now, straw purchasing is prosecuted as "lying and buying" -- that is, lying on the form when you purchase the gun. The penalties are weak, and it is not easy to prosecute:
Straw purchasers themselves are typically prosecuted for what's known as "lying and buying": making a false statement on the federal documentation they fill out when purchasing a gun by claiming they are the actual intended possessor when, in fact, the gun is for someone else. But even in those cases, courts have held that the evidence must show the gun was purchased on behalf of a "prohibited possessor" a felon, for example.
All of these things can be tough to prove, and several cases had been tossed over lack of evidence. Most notable was one of the last big cases the Phoenix ATF investigated before Fast and Furious the widely publicized probe of gun shop owner George Iknadosian, who was accused of knowingly selling hundreds of guns to straw buyers.
In March 2009, a judge threw out the case against Iknadosian, noting that the weapons were purchased legally and there was no proof that they ultimately wound up in the hands of unlawful possessors. It was a hard pill to swallow, and the lead agent on that case, ATF special agent Hope MacAllister, would go on to become the lead case agent for Fast and Furious.
All of these things can be tough to prove, and several cases had been tossed over lack of evidence. Most notable was one of the last big cases the Phoenix ATF investigated before Fast and Furious the widely publicized probe of gun shop owner George Iknadosian, who was accused of knowingly selling hundreds of guns to straw buyers.
In March 2009, a judge threw out the case against Iknadosian, noting that the weapons were purchased legally and there was no proof that they ultimately wound up in the hands of unlawful possessors. It was a hard pill to swallow, and the lead agent on that case, ATF special agent Hope MacAllister, would go on to become the lead case agent for Fast and Furious.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/30/atf-fast-and-furious-gun-trafficking_n_914064.html
The statute that the Democrats are proposing would make it explicitly illegal to knowingly transfer a gun to someone who cannot legally possess one. As I've said above, given that several ATF agents have commented that this would be a useful tool for them, I really don't get where the resistance is coming from.
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Amid ATF Fast And Furious Scandal, House Democrats Point To Weak Gun Laws [View all]
SecularMotion
Jun 2012
OP
Obviously, the gun laws were too weak to prevent the ATF from doing what it did.
AnotherMcIntosh
Jun 2012
#8
How in the world wouldn't ITAR cover people driving guns into mexico?
OneTenthofOnePercent
Jun 2012
#15
If an attorney (or AG) can't prosocute expressly illegal behaviour under clearly worded laws...
OneTenthofOnePercent
Jun 2012
#37
I understand your argument, "The old laws don't or aren't working"...
OneTenthofOnePercent
Jun 2012
#39
The 1968 GCA expressly forbids nonlicensed civilians from exporting/importing firearms
OneTenthofOnePercent
Jun 2012
#44
In other words, you were wrong: there is no law explicitly against gun trafficking.
DanTex
Jun 2012
#46
Also, just to be clear, I don't find that proposed legislation to be lacking or bad.
OneTenthofOnePercent
Jun 2012
#45
Only because you are in favor of one right-wing industry lobby and not the other.
DanTex
Jun 2012
#51
The law makes it damned difficult to even legally export to a "friendly" country.
oneshooter
Jun 2012
#48