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Gun Control & RKBA

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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Sat Jun 16, 2012, 09:03 AM Jun 2012

Texas A&M Study Says Castle-Doctrine Laws Increase Homicides, Don't Deter Crime [View all]

In news sure to inspire furious bickering inside your television, a Texas A&M study has found that the castle doctrine -- on which Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law is based -- does not deter crime and, in fact, increases murder rates.

The killing of Florida teen Trayvon Martin by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in late February launched thousands of arguments about castle doctrine laws, which allow a person to use lethal force against an intruder in certain situations, provided they have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. Lawmakers in several states, including Texas, have debated revising their own self-defense laws.

"We found a 7 to 9 percent increase in homicides," says one of the study's authors, associate economics professor Mark Hoekstra. "That's significant. That's robust.

"We did comparisons in a bunch of different ways," he goes on. "We compared states that adopt [the law] to states that don't adopt. It doesn't matter if you control for things like policing or levels of incarceration. You can compare to only other states in the same region. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, castle doctrine increased homicides by 7 to 9 percent."

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2012/06/texas_am_study_castle_doctrine.php

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Raul Rodriguez, birthday party shooter, is a perfect example of a man who felt empowered pnwmom Jun 2012 #1
It is very rare for a CCW holder to make that mistake. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #3
All that means is that a lot of people are getting away with murder. pnwmom Jun 2012 #16
Stats here: GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #72
Please prove that a finding of "not guilty" means that the person is innocent, pnwmom Jun 2012 #76
If you claim the official stats are wrong, YOU have to prove it. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #77
Castle doctrine and SYG are two different things gejohnston Jun 2012 #9
They're writing about Texas so that's why they referred to the Castle doctrine. pnwmom Jun 2012 #19
Rodridguez didn't know what he was talking about either gejohnston Jun 2012 #21
There is a reason he was confused -- the Joe Horn decision. pnwmom Jun 2012 #25
That is a totally different Texas law gejohnston Jun 2012 #35
There isn't any law in Texas that, on the face of it, justifies the jury's decision. pnwmom Jun 2012 #64
I'll have to find the reference gejohnston Jun 2012 #127
Joe Horn was in his own yard when he shot those pieces of shi Tejas Jun 2012 #124
You're allowed to shoot burglars of your neighbor's property as long as you stand in your own yard? pnwmom Jun 2012 #131
No, and that is not what happened (but you knew that). Tejas Jun 2012 #132
They didn't burglarize his property; they burglarized the neighbors. pnwmom Jun 2012 #134
Not all homicides are murders. Some are justified, some are excusable. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #2
That doesn't help their agenda...you won't see that kind of truth revealed. ileus Jun 2012 #4
Yeah, but the increase was almost all due to non-justifiable homicide. DanTex Jun 2012 #6
7 to 9 percent increases: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #5
The increase is likely due to criminals being killed, this is a good thing Taitertots Jun 2012 #7
Nope. The increase is almost all due to non-justified homicide. DanTex Jun 2012 #8
Nope. Even the author of the study disagrees with you Taitertots Jun 2012 #10
You're not quoting the authors of the study. You're quoting the blogger. DanTex Jun 2012 #12
The FBI classification system they are using classifies almost all self defense shootings as murder Taitertots Jun 2012 #13
Is that what the NRA press release is saying about this study? LOL. DanTex Jun 2012 #14
I see how this goes, you find out that self-defense isn't in the data set so... Taitertots Jun 2012 #31
Wrong again! I like that you are changing your story, though. DanTex Jun 2012 #32
As much as you want to whine, self-defense isn't in the data set. Taitertots Jun 2012 #38
Sorry, you're wrong. DanTex Jun 2012 #42
The author's have already admitted that the FBI counts self-defense as murder or manslaughter Taitertots Jun 2012 #44
LOL. OK, now you're just being thick. Are you even reading my posts? DanTex Jun 2012 #50
I've read your posts, they are the same misrepresentations of fact repeated over and over... Taitertots Jun 2012 #53
Actually, most of my posts have been excerpts from the actual study. DanTex Jun 2012 #56
But SYG is... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #18
Actually, the study is about different kinds of laws that make it easier to use lethal force... DanTex Jun 2012 #20
they are describing SYG, not Castle Doctrine. gejohnston Jun 2012 #23
Thanks for the info :) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #28
Your excerpt says that the principle of "retreat to the wall" has a long history ... spin Jun 2012 #74
SYG is called Castle Doctrine in Texas Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #22
two different legal concepts gejohnston Jun 2012 #26
They are two related concepts. DanTex Jun 2012 #29
Actually I did gejohnston Jun 2012 #34
What data problems? You are quibbling about terminology. DanTex Jun 2012 #36
for one thing gejohnston Jun 2012 #47
Yeah, umm, that's not a "data problem". DanTex Jun 2012 #51
they do? gejohnston Jun 2012 #52
LOL. "You ignored the other points". DanTex Jun 2012 #57
umm no, but gejohnston Jun 2012 #59
CD was extended to outside the home in Texas and PA among other states Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #46
I disagree gejohnston Jun 2012 #48
Well, as human beings, I think we have a duty to not kill others Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #62
I'm not disagreeing with you as far as stuff goes. gejohnston Jun 2012 #67
I don't think it is a question of being opposed to resisting violent crime. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #70
Yes it is gejohnston Jun 2012 #71
I'll wager that virtually all those philosophically opposed to resisting violent crime crayfish Jun 2012 #92
Who would be philosophically opposed to resisting violent crime? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #98
Just take a look back at the Robert Eels thread gejohnston Jun 2012 #100
If that's your position, you should be advocating for disarming cops. Their reasons for carrying crayfish Jun 2012 #91
I have advocated for disarming cops many times Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #95
Fine. You can employ whatever tools you think will work for you for self defense. Do not dictate crayfish Jun 2012 #111
moat? boiling oil? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #30
Castles? Moats? Boiling oil? It'll come. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #39
Saturday morning humor discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #45
From the standpoint of many right wingers, the homicide are simply ladjf Jun 2012 #11
When I read the responses to this study, I think of my father's generation. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #15
Well said! Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #24
One question gejohnston Jun 2012 #27
If some DUer has a gun and I don't, that is disparity of force. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #78
you missed the point. gejohnston Jun 2012 #81
In most shall-issue states an FBI background investigation is required of the applicant. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #88
People who need gun permits (for example judges) can get them in L.A. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #101
guilt by association? gejohnston Jun 2012 #102
You trust a government to determine "need"? GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #104
What makes judges "more equal" than other Citizens... PavePusher Jun 2012 #106
They sentence criminals and are vulnerable to revenge attacks. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #130
Does this pricipal apply also to the Thirteenth and Twenty-sixth Amendments? n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #133
So much wrong with your statements.... PavePusher Jun 2012 #105
??? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #33
This post is full of win. n/t ellisonz Jun 2012 #99
So much fail in this post it's hard to choose where to start. Clames Jun 2012 #103
"...if you carry a gun and use it to harm someone who is not carrying a gun, you are a criminal." PavePusher Jun 2012 #107
"That is not our job as plain citizens." PavePusher Jun 2012 #108
SYG & CD are not designed to deter crime. And it follows logically that homicides increase. So what? OneTenthofOnePercent Jun 2012 #17
I think you might need a few more decimal points to identify with your SN Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #37
Post removed Post removed Jun 2012 #55
but there isn't gejohnston Jun 2012 #58
There isn't what? I'm missing your point. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #61
rise in homicide gejohnston Jun 2012 #68
How do you know? Have you read their report on the states they studied? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #69
Yeah but gejohnston Jun 2012 #73
This isn't about SYG versus CD Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #75
they are too different things gejohnston Jun 2012 #79
I am aware of that. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #82
No, they keep DAs from sending innocent people to prison. gejohnston Jun 2012 #83
I doubt any jury would convict a true self defense killing. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #84
So, race bias in SYG, but you don't think there would be one gejohnston Jun 2012 #85
Looks to me like the judge ruled correctly under SYG Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #86
Juvie court gejohnston Jun 2012 #89
What former members might do is irrelevant. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #93
no. gejohnston Jun 2012 #96
Why do you like criminals so much? crayfish Jun 2012 #94
What makes you think I like criminals? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #97
Because you want many citizens to be defenseless against violent criminals. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #109
Bullshit! I don't want anyone to be defenseless against anything or anyone. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #110
What is your own personal limit as to what tools can be morally employed? crayfish Jun 2012 #112
Bullshit yourself! You want to deny firearms to people. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #113
Show me one post where I say I want to deny firearms to people. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #114
You oppose private citizens legally carrying concealed. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #117
I oppose anyone carrying a gun unless they are under a credible threat Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #118
The real-world result of your policies would be armed criminals and helpless citizens. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #119
Don't believe everything you read in RW tabloids like the Daily Mail. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #120
you missed a couple gejohnston Jun 2012 #121
No, I didn't miss those. I remember them well. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #122
I drew my .45 against a burglar. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #135
Was there anything factually incorrect in the article? GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #129
Opposing is not denying. It's not my business if people want to act foolishly. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #123
My reason is: "Just in case." GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #128
Well Said... ileus Jun 2012 #41
Which part was well said? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #63
I suspect that the authors are uncertain of the conclusions they are drawing ... spin Jun 2012 #40
If only we could quiz the "authors" on their opinion of the 2A...then we'd see their true agenda. ileus Jun 2012 #43
Good post. Really no surprise there. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #49
Unfortunately, studies and empirical evidence are not going to change the minds of the NRA crowd. DanTex Jun 2012 #54
Couldn't agree more. Empirical data tends to burst bubbles. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #60
Then here is some empirical data to burst your bublble. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #116
How many decades have passed since 2004, exactly?! TPaine7 Jun 2012 #87
Did the Aggies just conflate Castle Doctrine for SYG? Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #65
Yes they did gejohnston Jun 2012 #66
math profs are good at that. Tejas Jun 2012 #126
Who gave them the idea SYG and CD laws are supposed to deter crime? ID10Ts ileus Jun 2012 #80
They apparently don't even grasp the differences between CD and SYG. By the way, Zimmerman has not crayfish Jun 2012 #90
Using the FBI justifiable homicide numbers is a mistake. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #115
associate economics professors suck at math so they do social studies now? Tejas Jun 2012 #125
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