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spin

(17,493 posts)
77. Realize that many of us who support gun rights have no problem with reasonable restrictions ...
Wed Jun 6, 2012, 12:33 AM
Jun 2012

Last edited Wed Jun 6, 2012, 01:12 AM - Edit history (1)

and we wish to do our best to insure that firearms are in the hands of honest, sane and responsible people.

Unfortunately in our nation today both sides of many important arguments have their feet firmly planted in concrete and refuse to budge and compromise on the issues. With the rowers on the left side of the boat rowing as hard as they can and those on the right refusing to row, we will only end up going in circles and will never get anywhere.

I find this especially true in the debate over gun control. There was a time frame when those who opposed firearm ownership enjoyed great success and were able to impose many restrictions and even pass the "assault weapons" ban. They were looking forward to greatly restricting or banning handgun ownership and some hoped to eventually ban and confiscate all firearms although most would have been satisfied with only licensed hunters and target shooters owning rifles or shotguns. An incremental approach to accomplishing their goal was proving successful. They believed that one small step at a time would eventually result in gun laws similar to those in Canada or even possibly the United Kingdom.

But the pro-RKBA group began to win victories in states like Florida with the passage of "Shall Issue" concealed carry. At that time, I was a Floridian who owned a number of handguns and enjoyed target shooting but I feared that the law might well prove to be a disaster. "Shall Issue" concealed carry proved far more successful than I anticipated.

Other states decided to pass "Shall Issue" after seeing that it worked well in Florida and it rapidly spread across the nation. While it didn't always cause the crime rate to fall, it did convince many people that allowing honest citizens to own and even carry firearms does not lead to a return to the "Wild West" with shootouts at every intersection and at High Noon on Main Street as warned by those who opposed gun ownership. Many of my co-workers obtained carry permits. Nothing hurts the stereotype often projected by anti-RKBA groups that gun owners are all illiterate, beer drinking rednecks who are born again Christians than working side by side in a white collar environment with a college educated atheistic individual who enjoys shooting and carries a legally concealed handgun while not at work.

The pro-RKBA group decided that they would oppose any and all proposed future restrictions on firearms (even if reasonable) as they believed that if they allowed the camel to put his nose nose under the walls of the tent soon the entire camel would be inside. There is some logic to this idea but it stops progress on the issue of gun control which might actually prove productive in reducing gun violence.

Another factor which hurt gun control was a tendency to exaggerate. For example when the Glock handgun was introduced it was viewed by the anti-RKBA crowd as a "plastic pistol" which could slip through metal detectors and be used to hijack aircraft.


Why the Glock Became America’s Handgun

***snip***

Q
What role did gun control play in making the Glock a popular weapon?

A
Efforts to restrict the Glock by name were hugely important. For example, when the gun first showed up in the United States, gun-control advocates said this gun is extremely and uniquely dangerous because it’s made mostly out of plastic so airport security machines won’t detect it. There was a huge controversy over this. There were congressional hearings in ’86 and ’87, and some jurisdictions, such as New York City, banned the Glock.

But this allegation was just factually incorrect. Airport security machines did detect the Glock because they’re mostly X-ray machines, and X-rays see plastic just the way they see metal. Moreover, by weight, the Glock is actually mostly metal anyway. The slide is made out of steel, so if you do have a magnetometer, it should detect that slide. And if someone is staring at it and knows what they’re looking for, they should be able to see it. This was a huge embarrassment for gun-control forces and a huge boon for Glock. There is no better way in the United States to get attention for a gun than to suggest it’s extremely potent and effective.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/weapons/why-the-glock-became-americas-handgun


Despite considerable support from the main stream media, gun control advocates have been unable to stop the spread of laws such as Castle Doctrine, "Take Your Gun to Work", and "Stand Your Ground" in many states. In fact the media ruined its reputation to a great extent by showing an obvious bias on the issue of gun control. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand firearms and when the media portrays a firearm that is a semiautomatic weapon as a machine gun, knowledgeable people tend to question their reporting on far more complicated issues such as economics. Recent Supreme Court decisions from a conservative court have also hurt the anti-RKBA cause.

However I believe that it is possible that the pro-RKBA groups such as the NRA may overplay their current advantage and find that the pendulum swings in two directions. I feel that some restrictions are very reasonable and removing such limits may lead to a number of preventable tragedies. Time will tell.

I think that we can improve our current firearm laws but in order to do so both sides of the issue have to compromise. Perhaps the NRA and other pro-RKBA organizations could propose ideas that would help to insure that only rational, sane and responsible people can buy firearms from dealers and private individuals. Gun right groups such as the NRA are riding high in the saddle right now and the effort might not only be successful but might prevent avoidable tragedies that could endanger existing gun rights. The anti-RKBA groups could accept that firearm ownership is a fact of American society and is unlikely to go away. They might, for example, agree that training all high school students in firearm safety in a nation that has more than 300 million firearms is a rational idea. While it is true that such courses might interest some in the shooting sports, it might well prevent unnecessary accidents. Both groups could work together to combat criminal activity and insure that police departments pro actively fight crime and criminal drug gangs. Perhaps rational people on both sides of the issue could realize that we have lost the War on Drugs and we would be better off to legalize some drugs such as marijuana as all we are currently accomplishing is to enable violent criminal gangs to profit off the sale of not only fairly harmless drugs such as marijuana but far more dangerous drugs like Meth or concoctions such as K2 or bath salts.

I doubt that this will happen but I can dream.

Of course I will admit that firearms are inherently dangerous and even well trained and responsible people may do extremely foolish things with a gun especially if they are under the influence of alcohol. Firearms also make committing suicide much easier. It's far too easy to grab a firearm when you are suffering from a a bout of depression or in an intense argument while you are inebriated especially when the weapon is not properly secured.

Firearms may provide you with an excellent and challenging life long hobby. They may provide food for your family table. You may enjoy collecting firearms and they can prove to be an excellent investment if you are knowledgeable. They may enable you to stop a violent home invader or a mugger who intends to harm you on the street.

However they can take your life or the life of another person in an instant. A firearm is an inanimate but lethal object.

I often read posts here in the Gungeon that insinuate that those who support RKBA want every citizen in the United States to own a firearm. That might be true of a small minority but many feel as I do that guns are NOT for everybody.

I personally try to discourage gun ownership when asked by an individual who while interested in purchasing one is inexperienced with firearms. I point out that the chances that he/she might have a reason to use one for self defense are far less than the possibility that owning one might cause a tragedy. I will point out that I lost a close family member because she mixed alcohol with handling a firearm despite the fact that she was well trained in firearm safety and was an experienced shooter. If the person fails to listen to my reasoning, I ask them to take a firearm safety course and to actively engage in the shooting sports by visiting a range on a regular basis.








Nobody makes them up. Jackpine Radical Jun 2012 #1
Naw I was hoping for a roll call so they could bammified. ileus Jun 2012 #2
Mirror mirror on the wall... Electric Monk Jun 2012 #133
I dunno rrneck Jun 2012 #3
Y'know, feminists talk about pornography sometimes, and apparently gunnies have an interest in porn, petronius Jun 2012 #79
I like the way you think! rrneck Jun 2012 #80
I'm a leftist Scootaloo Jun 2012 #4
Interesting idea gejohnston Jun 2012 #5
How about an antique/classical weapons collectors group? Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #36
I currently take Aikido, and train with the jo and sword. ileus Jun 2012 #44
When I was working in South Africa I trained on the Zulu oneshooter Jun 2012 #54
Well, it'd be a nice reminder to the gun folks Scootaloo Jun 2012 #78
A Conan-style axe would be a little bit heavy to carry around. GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #8
My thoughts exactly! Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #13
Movies get it wrong. Rittermeister Jun 2012 #132
Amen, Scootaloo Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #11
Can't have a switchblade in Indiana... BiggJawn Jun 2012 #102
not to mention gejohnston Jun 2012 #103
You can buy one if you want. Clames Jun 2012 #15
I prefer a broadsword sarisataka Jun 2012 #20
Broadsword is just to unwieldy for defense inside the home. Clames Jun 2012 #26
In the home, I prefer Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #28
Always looking for more lethal weapons.... ileus Jun 2012 #45
Just you wait until... Clames Jun 2012 #66
WHAT!!!!! No lazer??? n/t oneshooter Jun 2012 #67
Nah, don't like that tacticool crap. Clames Jun 2012 #76
That would make it a tactical tomahawk....5x more dangerous. ileus Jun 2012 #87
It also needs to be painted black n/t sarisataka Jun 2012 #91
What about the shoulder thing that goes up? Clames Jun 2012 #98
Roman short sword, aka the Gladius oneshooter Jun 2012 #137
A good Gladius is hard to find for a reasonable price ... spin Jun 2012 #149
Good link sarisataka Jun 2012 #150
Few people have any understanding of how deadly a sword is .... spin Jun 2012 #84
Training beside someone that knows proper technique ileus Jun 2012 #88
Long ago I read an article sarisataka Jun 2012 #92
I have a cold steel sword cane ... spin Jun 2012 #121
I may have to get one of those sarisataka Jun 2012 #126
Are you asking them to out themselves? LOL Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #6
You are the one making the accusation, you supply the names. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #7
Accusation. Are you kidding? It's a well known fact. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #14
many were on your side gejohnston Jun 2012 #19
Name some on "my side" Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #24
Sharesunited/Loudly. Clames Jun 2012 #29
Don't know either of them. Interesting that you do though. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #34
I don't know that one at all. Clames Jun 2012 #69
I did not say she was RW gejohnston Jun 2012 #33
she trolled here constantly ileus Jun 2012 #46
So supply the names of the current RW trolls. N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #31
I don't call people out. They usually manage it on their own. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #35
Just in case I too am on your list SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #56
LOL. No, my friend, you are not and it's not a J. Edgar kind of list Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #63
Fair enough SGMRTDARMY Jun 2012 #85
No problem. Respect. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #90
Kinda like this one? rl6214 Jun 2012 #142
If you cant name names rrneck Jun 2012 #43
exactly. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #58
They love their little witch hunts. rrneck Jun 2012 #61
No, I'm not fearmongering Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #145
I agree with your last sentence. rrneck Jun 2012 #147
I resent the implication Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #9
Welcome aboard! rrneck Jun 2012 #10
Thanks. Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #12
Welcome and a tip...... Bennyboy Jun 2012 #51
glad to meet you discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2012 #16
Thanks. Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #18
Ditto. Welcome to DU and the gungeon. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #22
I've seen them. Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #25
Fair enough. Now we know where you stand Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #30
???? gejohnston Jun 2012 #39
you probably want to ditch a few people from jury duty. ileus Jun 2012 #47
You'll find a number of posters here who think the NRA isn't a right-wing political organization... ellisonz Jun 2012 #48
Does that make Planned Parenthood a left wing political organization? DragonBorn Jun 2012 #101
Yes. Is being left-wing bad in your book? n/t ellisonz Jun 2012 #111
one correction gejohnston Jun 2012 #27
I support the "RIGHT" to carry guns but do not claim that right trumps public safety rl6214 Jun 2012 #143
Ellisonz, bongbong, and DanTex will be the judges of that. Clames Jun 2012 #32
I hope Starboard Tack takes note of the fact that you were not afraid to name Names and stand by Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #62
Nope sorry....You need a decade of service troll hunting. ileus Jun 2012 #52
To paraphrase what she said to me OriginalGeek Jun 2012 #134
The queen told everyone the same thing at one time or another. ileus Jun 2012 #135
lol, yeah I saw a little of that OriginalGeek Jun 2012 #136
Welcome to DU and to GC&RKBA Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #73
Welcome to DU and the Gungeon ... spin Jun 2012 #81
Good post. I may not agree with you on everything, but you have my respect. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #144
I post on DU to debate and also to learn ... spin Jun 2012 #146
I couldn't agree more. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #148
first, what's a troll? gejohnston Jun 2012 #17
The OP and entire thread is about RW trolls, not trolls in general. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #37
"They post outrageous comments in an effort to divide us." You mean like the "ban them alls" oneshooter Jun 2012 #41
I haven't seen one of those. Got a link? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #42
One can find several examples in Meta about shutting down Gun Control & RKBA Kaleva Jun 2012 #55
Don't know what you mean by "shutting down Gun Control" Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #64
Okay Kaleva Jun 2012 #65
Your buddy ellisonz... Clames Jun 2012 #86
Sorry, I misunderstood. Didn't realize you meant the group. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #89
I'm afraid your fears out weigh the reality. Clames Jun 2012 #100
I must have missed something. What fears are you referring to? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #105
Obviously you fear something with this whole change of SOP thing. Clames Jun 2012 #109
WTF does fear have to do with the SOP? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #114
I know very well how engaging it is... Clames Jun 2012 #120
Let me see what I can do. oneshooter Jun 2012 #138
OK you got one. Thanks. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #139
Is anyone going to address the Anti gun trolls? DragonBorn Jun 2012 #99
Just post a link. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #106
link, please, to the breaking the law thread. thanks Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #119
The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT ... spin Jun 2012 #82
It's difficult for many liberal and progressive Democrats ... spin Jun 2012 #21
Testify Brother Spin! Hells Liberal Jun 2012 #23
Well said Spin. Respect. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #40
Thanks for your support. (n/t) spin Jun 2012 #83
It's not about supporting or opposing the Second Amendment... ellisonz Jun 2012 #49
Realize that many of us who support gun rights have no problem with reasonable restrictions ... spin Jun 2012 #77
Logic, compromise????? sarisataka Jun 2012 #93
Thanks. (n/t) spin Jun 2012 #108
I mis-read the subject as "So who WAKES up the RW trolls here?" slackmaster Jun 2012 #38
Democrat Kaleva Jun 2012 #50
RWers have barely mastered soap - you think they let anyone make them up? petronius Jun 2012 #53
Well Said! N/T GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #57
yes. I wish I could K&R your post. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #59
I am more interested in who makes up the LW Trolls here. They have done more to Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #60
Just to name a few: DanTex Jun 2012 #68
RIP AH1Apache.....you were trolled by the best. ileus Jun 2012 #70
Agreed. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #74
+2. I saw no reason for AH1 to be PPRed - seemed like an interesting poster petronius Jun 2012 #75
Finally, someone with honor and unafraid. These are all dead...Can't help but, be curious Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #71
+1,000,000 ellisonz Jun 2012 #72
I've never heard of most of those. How much did they post in the Gungeon? Common Sense Party Jun 2012 #94
btw, you can Thank ME for the PPRing of SATRIcal - so, you see..I know a Troll when I see one. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #95
he must not have been memorable gejohnston Jun 2012 #96
he harassed me in this group and I dropped eight (now hidden) bombs on his ass. And now people try Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #97
Not me. BiggJawn Jun 2012 #104
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's probably because you carry Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #107
Do you pat down every cyclist that you meet? GreenStormCloud Jun 2012 #110
I've never worn "skin tight latex", not being a rubber fetishist Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #112
I remember reading the article gejohnston Jun 2012 #113
Yeah, it was a bummer all round. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #115
Is pepper spray legal in SoCal? gejohnston Jun 2012 #116
I don't know if it's legal. Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #117
"Makes one wonder what was so valuable." How about his LIFE? AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #124
Why would they want his life? Starboard Tack Jun 2012 #125
When you're getting your ass beat in an unprovoked attack AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #127
Well, that's a shame. BiggJawn Jun 2012 #118
Duh. CALIFORNIA. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #123
I'm a progressive. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #122
I am my handle. I firmly support egalitarianism as the only system in which equality is even Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #128
So I must ask... Is it true only RW trolls support biased studies that say same-sex parents are bad WhollyHeretic Jun 2012 #129
Snork... ileus Jun 2012 #130
We eagerly await your opinion on WhollyHeretic's post 129. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #131
Up the topic goes. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #140
Thanks for the heads up.... ileus Jun 2012 #141
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»So who makes up the RW tr...»Reply #77