Gun Control & RKBA

ileus

(15,396 posts)

38. Could there be a more progressive cause?

Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:59 PM

Apr 2012

What could be more progressive than trusting someone with the ability to defend their person, children, and home?

Without that ability do any others matter? Would any others stand?

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Is support of 2A rights/RKBA a Progessive value? [View all] shadowrider Apr 2012 OP

The right to own guns is a progressive value. Recognizing that right as not absolute morningfog Apr 2012 #1

Thank you. Your input is appreciated. shadowrider Apr 2012 #5

I disagree with your claim of "must be limitations". PavePusher Apr 2012 #26

What is "prove" in this context and who determines it? n/t ellisonz Apr 2012 #66

what, because you say so? iverglas Apr 2012 #82

I agree, however the catch is what constitutes "logical restrictions." TheWraith Apr 2012 #61

"some people here think" iverglas Apr 2012 #83

I am not sure what 2A rights/RKBA is. upaloopa Apr 2012 #2

2A = Second Amendment RKBA = Right to Keep and Bear Arms shadowrider Apr 2012 #6

But gun violence is at historic lows and still declining hack89 Apr 2012 #8

I haven't seen any real evidence to support that claim. upaloopa Apr 2012 #12

the FBI says so gejohnston Apr 2012 #13

Check out the FBI's stats which clearly show a steady decline AH1Apache Apr 2012 #14

Shall we start with the annual FBI crime report? hack89 Apr 2012 #16

3 replys to me all with the same reference. upaloopa Apr 2012 #23

It is only becuase these stats have been posted here countless times. hack89 Apr 2012 #24

No I am not saying that. I own a gun also. upaloopa Apr 2012 #25

sorry to burst your bubble, but armueller2001 Apr 2012 #34

When you can show that our present gun laws pose a threat to society hack89 Apr 2012 #35

This is the awesome-ist mistake I have EVER SEEN. Callisto32 Apr 2012 #50

My slip is showing - good catch. nt hack89 Apr 2012 #51

Was it.....wait for it... Callisto32 Apr 2012 #54

"If true I would expect three people to sight three different set of statistics." PavePusher Apr 2012 #27

Seems a bit suspect.??!! discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #44

"Seems a bit suspect." rl6214 Apr 2012 #74

there you have it iverglas Apr 2012 #84

Anti gun zealot talking point=failure rl6214 Apr 2012 #73

What gun control laws have been relaxed, aside from the worthless AWB rl6214 Apr 2012 #72

I say YES AH1Apache Apr 2012 #3

Some progressives only support some rights mvccd1000 Apr 2012 #4

You should be more worried... ellisonz Apr 2012 #67

"Progressive" is basically liberalism with an emphasis on economic progress. rrneck Apr 2012 #7

Yes. needledriver Apr 2012 #9

Thank you. Your input is greatly appreciated. shadowrider Apr 2012 #20

I think it is more accurate to say that they all ensure, reinforce and strengthen each other. PavePusher Apr 2012 #28

actually, honest to goodness progressives iverglas Apr 2012 #87

As far back as 1983 progressive criminologists James Wright and Peter Rossi Simo 1939_1940 Apr 2012 #10

I think most progressives do support the second amendment Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #11

Keep in mind... Clames Apr 2012 #15

"...shall not be infringed." seems to limit the restrictions that can be applied. YMMV. n/t PavePusher Apr 2012 #29

Well it is not nearly that simple, what would be considered an infringment is unclear Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #40

nukes are not arms gejohnston Apr 2012 #41

Nukes are absolutely arms, have you ever heard of an arms race? Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #42

in military terms gejohnston Apr 2012 #43

Better term for nukes... Clames Apr 2012 #86

What do you think "bear" means? PavePusher Apr 2012 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #47

Google "aircraft explosive decompression". PavePusher Apr 2012 #48

the Constituion is a set of negative rights gejohnston Apr 2012 #49

Really, not that much. Callisto32 Apr 2012 #52

Ummm, no it would not bring a plane down. rl6214 Apr 2012 #75

The Myth Busters... Clames Apr 2012 #88

So, did you do your research yet? n/t PavePusher Apr 2012 #95

I will acknowledge that after doing research this probably could not bring a plane down Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #96

A shoot-out is never a "good thing", except that it may be required to stop something worse. PavePusher Apr 2012 #97

Guns would be more likely to cause a plane to crash into a building than prevent it Bjorn Against Apr 2012 #99

Please point out where I said "the good guys could always defeat the terrorists". PavePusher Apr 2012 #100

You have absolutely no basis for these assumptions. Clames Apr 2012 #101

"If we could still do that, we might not have a major construction site in NYC today." ellisonz Apr 2012 #68

depends on the screening process gejohnston Apr 2012 #70

In principle, both self-defense rights and public safety are legitimate progressive values, DanTex Apr 2012 #17

The gun control movement also capitalized on fear and ignorance. krispos42 Apr 2012 #18

"the pro-gun movement thrives on ignorance and fear," PavePusher Apr 2012 #31

I would add sarisataka Apr 2012 #33

"commonly resorting to ad hominem attacks on genitalia." ellisonz Apr 2012 #69

You've just proven his point. Marengo Apr 2012 #94

Yes - all civil liberties are equally important. nt hack89 Apr 2012 #19

As a progressive, I support the right of innocents to not ever have to face a nut with a gun saras Apr 2012 #21

"life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" needledriver Apr 2012 #22

I'm all for an unlimited First Amendment. PavePusher Apr 2012 #32

Reminds me of a KKK member I got into it with once -- he called himself "a civil rights activist." Hoyt Apr 2012 #30

What about war when a nation armueller2001 Apr 2012 #37

I wish this site still had rules. Union Scribe Apr 2012 #39

hoyt seems to be made of Teflon(tm). I guess that means he's like Reagan? PavePusher Apr 2012 #46

That's interesting. Especially the one that got me for hurting a gun's feelings. Hoyt Apr 2012 #64

Hoyt, a scenario for your contemplation oneshooter Apr 2012 #71

I have said repeatedly, I don't have a real problem what you do with guns on your land. Hoyt Apr 2012 #77

What do you call "street and compound guns?" oneshooter Apr 2012 #79

Hoyt declines to answer the question. oneshooter Apr 2012 #102

Watching MASH as I am reading this thread. rl6214 Apr 2012 #76

/Hawkeye hysterical laugh. beevul Apr 2012 #90

Who's that, 6pak? rl6214 Apr 2012 #93

Who would be Marget Houlihan? gejohnston Apr 2012 #103

OOOH, Margeret would have to be Iverglass or rl6214 Apr 2012 #104

People can say anything Union Scribe Apr 2012 #89

Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #53

Well said. AH1Apache Apr 2012 #55

since callistos post has been hidden rl6214 Apr 2012 #78

I don't alert. But I do think you should not be around guns when you are excited. Hoyt Apr 2012 #56

Oh look everyone AH1Apache Apr 2012 #57

I'm still waiting also. ileus Apr 2012 #59

I assume that you're referring to the unfounded accusation that you don't Simo 1939_1940 Apr 2012 #63

and I'm waiting for this reply. ileus Apr 2012 #80

Yes sarisataka Apr 2012 #36

Could there be a more progressive cause? ileus Apr 2012 #38

Absolutely, we should protect ALL of our civil rights badtoworse Apr 2012 #58

You are, of course, 100% correct. AH1Apache Apr 2012 #60

I think the concept of a government allowing an armed populace is very progressive. OneTenthofOnePercent Apr 2012 #62

Binary thinking... ellisonz Apr 2012 #65

or as I was about to say: false dichotomy iverglas Apr 2012 #81

It's a way for them to sound informned... ellisonz Apr 2012 #85

No. Nothing progressive at all. In fact it is regressive. Starboard Tack Apr 2012 #91

starting over with ALEC and gejohnston Apr 2012 #92

We started in the right place, already. :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Apr 2012 #98