Reply #180

In the discussion thread: As the pendulum swings, we see a glimpse of sanity on the horizon [View all]

Sat Apr 21, 2012, 05:55 PM

180. You have stats. They are not evidence of anything.

Nobody has proven any connection. Anti-gang policing strategies in LA and other cities probably had the largest effect. The death toll going down is more likely connected to improvements in first responder training, ER procedures and MAIG. But you can believe what you want if all that concerns you is reinforcing your position.

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244 replies	Author	Time	Post
As the pendulum swings, we see a glimpse of sanity on the horizon [View all]	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	OP
While I wouldnt start counting chickens just yet	rrneck	Apr 2012	#1
Like it should.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#2
It's not necessarily a bad law	rrneck	Apr 2012	#6
It's a bad law...	ellisonz	Apr 2012	#28
Of course it's atrocious.	rrneck	Apr 2012	#40
Explain to me why preceeding self-defense law was insufficient. nt/	ellisonz	Apr 2012	#43
So you got nothin'. All righty. nt	rrneck	Apr 2012	#52
Neither do you...	ellisonz	Apr 2012	#53
The difference	rrneck	Apr 2012	#54
"I'm not feeding off the death of that boy for my own amusement."	ellisonz	Apr 2012	#61
Whst makes you think I've ever taken you seriously?	rrneck	Apr 2012	#73
These gun culture folks are often disgusting. They'd sacrifice a bunch of innocents	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#128
Yes, and several others would sarcifice a bunch of people to ban them.	beevul	Apr 2012	#130
You've never seen beyond your gun barrel. What's new?	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#131
I haven't actually even looked at a gun...	beevul	Apr 2012	#167
Show me how the statute even APPLIES to the Martin incident...	Callisto32	Apr 2012	#222
Unfortunately.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#39
Oh boy! I think you just burst a lot of balloons.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#70
You do know that gun sales to women is one of the fastest growing segments, right?	DonP	Apr 2012	#75
I do.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#80
Also, Harley Davidson is having functions in their stores targeted (no pun... ) to women.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#86
snork	iverglas	Apr 2012	#157
You are right, a miserable increase.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#191
Apparently you haven't been paying attention...Women are among the fastest growing demographics	S_B_Jackson	Apr 2012	#76
Not a good way to find out you need to carry a gun.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#90
No, it wasn't....attack took place IN her home.	S_B_Jackson	Apr 2012	#118
What does your wife's experience have to do with carrying in public?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#162
actually, no indication at all that one needs to carry a gun	iverglas	Apr 2012	#158
+1. Well said, as usual.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#165
+1, nt	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#185
Dear Lost-in-FL, please read this	shadowrider	Apr 2012	#77
I do know people with firearms.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#84
"Lady"?	iverglas	Apr 2012	#161
The poster to whom I was answering didn't take offense, so you have no reason	shadowrider	Apr 2012	#164
you really are a great big charmer, you are!	iverglas	Apr 2012	#168
Buh Bye	shadowrider	Apr 2012	#171
I wish	iverglas	Apr 2012	#173
Sliced and diced! Damn, that was better than hockey.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#178
I fail to see the logic	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#78
Qualified expert with M16 and was trained as a Medic to use a 9mm	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#89
I grew up with guns	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#96
"I basically find duty to retreat as fundamentally unjust in many ways."	Simo 1939_1940	Apr 2012	#163
what sick, upside-down world?	iverglas	Apr 2012	#169
You're right. That would be, "sick" and "upside-down."	HALO141	Apr 2012	#243
...unfortunately	sarisataka	Apr 2012	#81
My Loving Wife has had a CHL for 10 years now.	oneshooter	Apr 2012	#82
I don't have a problem with responsible/common sense gun ownership.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#88
I'm with you all the way. Good posts.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#92
agree except that	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#98
Maybe that applies to everyone.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#100
so if Martin killed	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#114
I am against it in principle outside the home	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#146
And this is where that argument breaks down.	Clames	Apr 2012	#148
Self-defense can be a justification for homicide.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#155
another one who needs to go to law school	iverglas	Apr 2012	#196
Another one who needs to go to charm school.	Clames	Apr 2012	#199
Q.E.D.	iverglas	Apr 2012	#201
As long as you are admonishing people to	cognoscere	Apr 2012	#210
if I see any need for instructions from whoever you are	iverglas	Apr 2012	#212
Oh, Canada!	Clames	Apr 2012	#219
At least I understand it enough to know that it didn't even apply to Zimmy guy.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#102
In truth, the fervor over SYG	pipoman	Apr 2012	#141
Thank you.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#103
She also shoots HighPower, using a AR-15 I built for her.	oneshooter	Apr 2012	#94
Good point!	bongbong	Apr 2012	#110
My wife has twice used her concealed pistol to prevent attack.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#135
Seriously? Why would I like that? Dramatizing much?	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#154
Because you are against guns.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#186
Nevermind that I have nothing against responsible gun ownership as I stated a few...	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#188
So are you against her having a CHL and carrying a gun?	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#193
No.	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#205
The nation is safe enough...	krispos42	Apr 2012	#140
I know several women who carry.	HALO141	Apr 2012	#244
Definitely no chickens yet and "adjustments" would be good.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#7
I think a tweak might be a good thing.	Logical	Apr 2012	#8
It would probably involve something like	rrneck	Apr 2012	#22
Great point! n-t	Logical	Apr 2012	#34
Excellent point!	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#93
No. nt	rrneck	Apr 2012	#97
With only 4% or so addicted to carrying guns in public, there is no reason sanity cannot	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#3
Interesting...	mvccd1000	Apr 2012	#5
If you're not addicted, that's great news.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#10
You realize that 75% of the public supports concealed carry, yes?	TheWraith	Apr 2012	#9
72% Really? Where did you pull that number from?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#13
Maybe if you actually read the poll?	TheWraith	Apr 2012	#26
That poll is very flawed	bongbong	Apr 2012	#33
I'll take AP/Ipsos' expertise over yours, thanks.	TheWraith	Apr 2012	#46
Go ahead	bongbong	Apr 2012	#49
Let me guess,	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#57
Nope	bongbong	Apr 2012	#95
But I bet you would agree with one that came up with an opposite view	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#104
Yes!	bongbong	Apr 2012	#107
Of course you would because it would fit your agenda	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#108
Ooops	bongbong	Apr 2012	#109
Coming form you, that's rich	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#112
Yes	bongbong	Apr 2012	#115
Big difference between supporting CC and supporting laws "allowing" CC permits.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#38
You're attempting to wriggle out of the fact that most Democrats support concealed carry.	TheWraith	Apr 2012	#47
Bullshit.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#62
One can't be progressive with a progressive stance on 2A freedom.	ileus	Apr 2012	#15
The 72% is fiction.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#17
Gibberish. n/t	ellisonz	Apr 2012	#29
I'm a Dem and I don't support concealed carry..nor does mr. shraby.	shraby	Apr 2012	#16
Well, that's your right.	TheWraith	Apr 2012	#27
I'm a dem and I support CC and OC and so does miss ileus	ileus	Apr 2012	#30
+100	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#45
People with CC permits are extremely safe.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#230
I guess you didn't read the WHOLE article.	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#35
"we have to keep up the pressure"	rl6214	Apr 2012	#20
NOW WE'RE ADDICTED HOYT?	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#56
And what have you done to bring this to fruition?	oneshooter	Apr 2012	#85
Dude, he doesn't have the time to do that	shadowrider	Apr 2012	#138
I agree	mvccd1000	Apr 2012	#4
Well hopefully the Zman case will end up in acquittal	ileus	Apr 2012	#11
You would hope Zimmerman walks. Self-defense in your mind is shooting people fleeing	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#36
really...having trouble quoting people again?	ileus	Apr 2012	#55
He made the same claim about me and when called on it	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#60
He claimed a similar lie several weeks ago...SHOP I suppose.	ileus	Apr 2012	#64
This post was hidden by jury decision.	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#65
And obviously	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#59
Do you carry a gun prepared to shoot someone in a split second?	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#127
where's the link?	ileus	Apr 2012	#142
I'm not even going to answer your dumbass question again.	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#145
Wonder how long a pro-RKBA Dem would last at DU who repeatedly	Simo 1939_1940	Apr 2012	#228
Evening bump...what is that link again?	ileus	Apr 2012	#187
wow, for somebody who gets so verbose and uppity	iverglas	Apr 2012	#200
A better suggestion...	Clames	Apr 2012	#206
isn't it lovely?	iverglas	Apr 2012	#213
I've learned...	Clames	Apr 2012	#220
still no link	ileus	Apr 2012	#101
Link? Thanks...	ileus	Apr 2012	#216
hello check check...is this thing on?	ileus	Apr 2012	#221
Aflac or ALEC?	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#48
oh my	iverglas	Apr 2012	#197
So far this year over 20 NRA supported laws have been passed and signed.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#12
For safety and Americas sake lets hope you're right.	ileus	Apr 2012	#14
For who's safety? And who's America?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#19
As long as my gun ownership does not threaten your safety	hack89	Apr 2012	#24
rude toter...	ileus	Apr 2012	#31
It threatens everyone's safety, directly or indirectly.	Hoyt	Apr 2012	#37
So does me owning a car or buying alcohol on a frequent basis	hack89	Apr 2012	#42
More logical fallacies	bongbong	Apr 2012	#111
It is not for alcohol	hack89	Apr 2012	#123
Really?	bongbong	Apr 2012	#125
I have plenty of evidence that murders and other gun violence is at historic lows	hack89	Apr 2012	#136
C'mon man, get with the program	shadowrider	Apr 2012	#139
You have stats. They are not evidence of anything.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#180
So you believe that more guns will produce more violence?	hack89	Apr 2012	#181
Ask Trayvon Martin that question.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#183
That is an evasion - not an answer	hack89	Apr 2012	#184
not mine...directly or indirectly	ileus	Apr 2012	#50
How Hoyt.	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#63
you're a rude baser gunner toter you don't deserve a response.	ileus	Apr 2012	#66
Why would your gun ownership threaten my safety?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#58
I would never carry on your private property without permission	hack89	Apr 2012	#68
I'll be exercising my 1A rights to alert all in the vicinity.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#72
warning rude toter!!!!	ileus	Apr 2012	#74
No, I would alert LE that there was an armed individual and let them sort it out.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#99
OMFG	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#105
Hopefully I wouldn't know and you would not be embarassed	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#149
So to be clear	sarisataka	Apr 2012	#152
Exactly!	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#156
A consistent standard	sarisataka	Apr 2012	#166
I'm striving for a consistent standard.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#175
If you see someone open carrying in Tampa	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#172
I haven't lived in Tampa since 1980	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#177
no it was 1893	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#179
I got a chuckle out of that.	mvccd1000	Apr 2012	#129
And that is fine. I would expect that.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#150
No so	mvccd1000	Apr 2012	#189
That's wonderful.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#192
I suppose he'd run up grab and throw them to the ground	ileus	Apr 2012	#143
Just as someone can do the same to you. I am sure you would be understanding about it.	oneshooter	Apr 2012	#144
Absolutely they could, but they would be wrong.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#151
Sure. No problem.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#182
How often have you actually done this? You say below that you've spotted CCWers in public;	petronius	Apr 2012	#176
Why would I be open to legal jeopardy?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#195
I don't think it is arrogance	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#198
Good point.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#203
not a modern handgun	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#204
I was meaning in terms of empowerment, not value.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#208
I always though empowerment was a good thing	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#209
I'm using it in the literal sense, not it's recent psycho-socio-political incarnation	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#214
Please reread your posts 58, 72, and 99	petronius	Apr 2012	#202
Sorry if I confused you.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#207
You didn't confuse me, you said two different and mutually exclusive things	petronius	Apr 2012	#211
I think I was pretty clear	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#215
Why thank you ST. I thought you had me pegged as a aggressive gun packer.	oneshooter	Apr 2012	#217
I would love to take you up on that.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#218
You mean losers shouldn't carry guns? nt	Lost-in-FL	Apr 2012	#190
An editorial does not = any increase in gun control	rl6214	Apr 2012	#18
"Until you people get organized"	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#21
More feigned ignorance	rl6214	Apr 2012	#23
More dodging the question	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#41
"you people" = gun grabbers. nt	hack89	Apr 2012	#25
Really? I don't see any gun grabbers here.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#44
Yes - I do consider you a gun grabber	hack89	Apr 2012	#51
Well you are wrong.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#67
Until you can prove a harm to society	hack89	Apr 2012	#69
Earth to Hack! 11,000 gun deaths is a harm to society.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#71
Which represents a 50 percent decrease since 1990	hack89	Apr 2012	#79
I don't know where you got the 50% decrease since 1990 from	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#83
your graph is outdated	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#87
I don't think so	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#91
Your chart misses the 6 more years of steady decline since 2004	hack89	Apr 2012	#106
Yawn	bongbong	Apr 2012	#113
The only thing that he/she is saying is that gun ownership is up while violent crime is down	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#116
Nope	bongbong	Apr 2012	#117
but you are guessing	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#119
Sure	bongbong	Apr 2012	#120
he was making a statement of fact	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#122
Might and may and blah blah blah.	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#132
There is no correlation between gun ownership and murder rates	hack89	Apr 2012	#121
Nope, as always	bongbong	Apr 2012	#126
Double nope.	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#133
Just your opinion - unsupported by logic or evidence.	hack89	Apr 2012	#137
that graph is interesting	Doctor_J	Apr 2012	#223
I think the mid-nineties spike was probably more gang related	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#224
Interesting.	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#225
LOL, uh huh.	beevul	Apr 2012	#134
Wanna show me where I advocate grabbing/confiscating guns?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#147
It doesn't matter.	beevul	Apr 2012	#170
Of course it matters	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#174
Indiscriminate.	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#226
I'm referring to virtually all.	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#227
So why the qualifier "indiscriminate" ...	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#229
Because current laws don't discriminate enough	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#234
Really?	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#235
The "ludicrous" picture of scattering people is yours, not mine	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#236
So what do you picture?	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#237
What do I picture?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#238
Different pictures.	Straw Man	Apr 2012	#239
You would have a heart attack in the church I attend.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#231
How come I would have a heart attack?	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#233
as an animist or some kind of undefined theiest,	gejohnston	Apr 2012	#240
Me too. LOL	Starboard Tack	Apr 2012	#241
The true gun grabbers are well organized	ProgressiveProfessor	Apr 2012	#32
Was that last sentence necessary?	rrneck	Apr 2012	#124
Hahahaha!!!!!!!	Major Hogwash	Apr 2012	#153
Every dead kid killed by gun nuts increases the numbers of gun grabbers	jpak	Apr 2012	#160
Backlash	jpak	Apr 2012	#159
Backlash?	AH1Apache	Apr 2012	#194
Frontlash!	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2012	#232
Sidelash!	ileus	Apr 2012	#242

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