Reply #19

In the discussion thread: Kleck actually making some sense on lenient gun laws [View all]

Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:43 PM

19. Correct me if I am wrong

It has been a long time since I looked at Kleck's findings but I don't think he ever claimed lenient laws would deter crime. His finding was the guns, primarily handguns, are used more often defensively than used to commit crimes.

It was others who made that claim, based on their interpretations of his findings.

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118 replies	Author	Time	Post
Kleck actually making some sense on lenient gun laws [View all]	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	OP
Time to throw Gary Kleck under the bus...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#1
Good shot.	Hoyt	Mar 2012	#4
Ummm, why?	eqfan592	Mar 2012	#9
Had anyone here claimed this, then you'd have a great comeback.	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#2
You're joking right	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#12
When have I ever used that as a justification?!? Stop trying to put your fingers in my mouth, eh?	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#16
Ah, yes, the unlikely possibility that you may have to defend yourself.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#21
Defending myself from violent attack.	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#22
Thanks for proving my point once again	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#27
Do you deny that those people saved themselves with guns?	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#29
Not at all	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#33
So it was a safety device to them, correct? n/t	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#35
It was a killing tool for society	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#42
Can't admit that the device they used to save themselves was a safety device?	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#45
Amazing. I think the same about you.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#46
Your moral whip is past it's sell-by date.	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#47
Is that all you've got?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#49
You really want to re-hash the same conversation we've had ten times?	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#50
I have never said that about handguns and you know it.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#53
If you were being pragmatic..	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#54
See you can't help but divert to personal attacks.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#58
"pointing out stupidity" -- is just what I did.	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#59
"They saved themselves by taking other lives."	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#97
Kleck has made a lot of sense for a very long time. This isn't news. NT	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#3
Well it's news to me.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#13
And of course you can't intelligently explain why he's a fool......	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#36
he has said this several times	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#5
I don't care about gun laws affecting crime rates.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#11
he was talking about violent crime	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#24
I've read enough of it thanks.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#25
about property, I agree to a point	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#32
Bit of a stretch	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#43
car jacking is not about theft	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#52
Hey, I'm a big fan of the Joe Pickett series by CJ Box	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#55
I did not say they were unarmed	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#57
I think you're way off the mark there.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#60
bullshit	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#61
And, once again, how are you going to remove guns from the criminals. Full list please!	Logical	Mar 2012	#65
I'm not the one providing them	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#66
I love your idea. It is just not practical......	Logical	Mar 2012	#67
I'm not talking about felons carrying guns	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#69
The only ones who will honor your rules are the non-criminals. n-t	Logical	Mar 2012	#73
us guys?	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#68
That's good.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#70
really?	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#72
How many sides of a point would you like to argue in the same thread?	Oneka	Mar 2012	#74
Apparently, you have a comprehension problem?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#78
My comprehension skillls work just fine	Oneka	Mar 2012	#94
It's not the first incident of cognitive dissonance with this particular poster.	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#100
So Kleck is basically stating...	Clames	Mar 2012	#6
so you are basically stating	iverglas	Mar 2012	#101
Agreed.	mvccd1000	Mar 2012	#7
This post should be placed at the top of the main Gun Group page, in a nice frame or something. n/t	NewMoonTherian	Mar 2012	#8
So your gun is not concealed, I assume.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#10
This old fart has his snub nosed .38 in his pants pocket ...	spin	Mar 2012	#14
Damned if you do, damned if you don't	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#15
The smartest approach is to stay out of strange neighborhoods late at night ...	spin	Mar 2012	#17
I couldn't agree more.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#18
Hope you don't blow your nuts off one day!	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#102
"the honesty of open carry"	rl6214	Mar 2012	#75
Correct me if I am wrong	sarisataka	Mar 2012	#19
You are correct	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#20
Lies, damned lies and...	sarisataka	Mar 2012	#23
I don't wonder how many Londoners regretted UK gun laws	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#26
I will differ	sarisataka	Mar 2012	#30
I don't buy the DGU numbers at all	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#31
total nonsense	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#34
Stopping imaginary aggression with aggression is not defensive	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#41
totally irrational	rl6214	Mar 2012	#76
Irrational? Moi? That's funny.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#80
Real vs. imaginary aggression.	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#98
Still spouting the party line I see	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#108
Still spouting something else, I see.	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#116
It's his own creation, thank god, stupid as it is. n/t	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#77
Offense vs defense	sarisataka	Mar 2012	#38
Where I come from, brandishing is a criminal offense, as it should be.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#48
Perhaps I missunderstood	sarisataka	Mar 2012	#56
"offensive" is a matter of intent and not an absolute.	PavePusher	Mar 2012	#62
to clarify	sarisataka	Mar 2012	#64
Of course. You are correct.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#71
Even Joyce funded	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#28
so-called "criminologist"?	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#37
This message was self-deleted by its author	friendly_iconoclast	Mar 2012	#39
It's obvious Kleck's not much of a criminologist- after all, he says things ST doesn't like.	friendly_iconoclast	Mar 2012	#40
You call 2.5 million DGU's science?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#44
the NRA never paid him	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#51
So your own sociologist...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#103
Actually	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#104
Maybe you should take a hint...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#105
I do	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#106
IIRC 2.5M was only the upper limit of his estimate.	PavePusher	Mar 2012	#63
Honestly, if he'd said 500,000 I'd think the same. Kleck's survey is a joke.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#79
then all phone surveys are bullshit	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#81
Many phone surveys are bullshit.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#82
or more likely	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#83
I reject bad science.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#84
In other words	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#85
Here's highly respected "criminologist" Marvin Wolfgang (RIP)	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#91
"I seriously doubt if there are 10,000 legitimate DGU's a year."	PavePusher	Mar 2012	#95
I know! And I don't buy any of them.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#96
"That's like doing a survey in an insane asylum and asking if anyone's seen Jesus of late."	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#90
IIRC again, most of the pro-restrictionists base their claims upon studies...	PavePusher	Mar 2012	#93
And recall that the survey was taken when crime was at it's peak, so ST	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#86
Let the record show that this member is willing to libel a liberal Democrat.	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#87
I actually corrected that	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#88
".....the poll itself is so flawed."	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#89
Kindly point to exactly where you retracted. NT	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#92
So by virtue of the fact that you're not disclosing where you "corrected" your libelous	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#99
They made efforts, but it made no difference	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#107
You continue to display your ignorance re. defensive gun use.	Simo 1939_1940	Mar 2012	#109
You just don't get it do you?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#110
So which is it? Is it a DGU only when someone's shot?	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#111
Oh right!	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#112
You let us know when your "DGU" research is done, mkay? n/t	X_Digger	Mar 2012	#113
OK	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#115
What is Defensive Gun Use?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#114
here are a couple obvious examples of each	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#117
LOL All are good. All are inside the home.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#118

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