Reply #38

In the discussion thread: School Kids Dying in Ohio: It's a Gun Problem [View all]

Tue Mar 6, 2012, 02:11 PM

montanto (2,930 posts)

38. I'll grant you that most would say the correlation is significant.

But correlation is still not causation, no matter what many people would say. Now consensus is truth? Yikes! Correlation can get stronger and stronger and still not be cause. The sun coming up doesn't cause me to eat my breakfast. The correlation is strong, but it's the hunger that causes the eating, not the sun. It would be hard to disagree that all school shootings happen at a school. Correlation is 100%, but it would be simpleminded to say that "school" caused the shooting. This isn't even an argument; it's nonsense. People want to blame violence on something, guns are handy, no pun, so they blame guns. It is far more challenging to think critically, to analyze the problem and track it to its source, and ballsier by far to suggest that we do something about that. This is why some lefty gun owners get frustrated with lefty anti-gunners: blaming guns is not seeking a solution, in fact, it obscures and distracts from and obviates the need to deal with the mental health issues that cause this type of inappropriate firearm use.

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160 replies	Author	Time	Post
School Kids Dying in Ohio: It's a Gun Problem [View all]	ellisonz	Mar 2012	OP
Right.	elleng	Mar 2012	#1
You're welcome.	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#2
B.S. Teenagers set kid on fire with gasoline.	RegieRocker	Mar 2012	#3
no way pip...it's those evil guns.	ileus	Mar 2012	#5
One shouldn't cast asparagus...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#13
Well it wasn't rare for the parents of the kid who got burned. You know the logical next step.	Pacafishmate	Mar 2012	#68
Crass and pathetic counter-argument...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#70
You're the master of hyperbole, my friend.	LAGC	Mar 2012	#71
I'd rather be hyperbolic for less bloodshed...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#72
That's just fucking brilliant!	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#14
What is not brilliant is the fact you do not realize murders have been	RegieRocker	Mar 2012	#69
One wonders how you did miss the much higher rate of death associated with Automobiles, versus guns	AtheistCrusader	Mar 2012	#160
gunz kill people.	ileus	Mar 2012	#4
like spoonz make people fat (nt)	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#51
The kid stole a firearm that was not properly secured. What is "properly secured"?	oneshooter	Mar 2012	#6
That's simple	one-eyed fat man	Mar 2012	#7
+100 Well said.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#15
Well, that's a first. A +100 to sarcasm.	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#23
You and Brewster may intend it as sarcastic, but he's right on the money.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#33
So let me understand your rules	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#36
Those might be your rules, not mine.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#48
Really?	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#54
I don't mean to be rude	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#95
News flash guns are designed to save.	ileus	Mar 2012	#82
So, if your boat gets stolen (failure to secure your property) and then	oneshooter	Mar 2012	#84
Sorry, but my boat was not designed to be a weapon	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#96
So if they're not designed as weapons, they don't kill anyone?	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#98
Nobody can be that thick.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#114
You are ignoring the fact that it can be made into one. And that by not securing it properly	oneshooter	Mar 2012	#111
I am responsible for my boat being secure	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#117
Oh?	one-eyed fat man	Mar 2012	#122
Could you please...	discntnt_irny_srcsm	Mar 2012	#135
They don't.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#136
How is that relevant to this discussion? n/t	discntnt_irny_srcsm	Mar 2012	#140
Tremendous comfort ...	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#123
Why don't you ask them?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#128
Well, that would be horribly insensitive, don't you think?	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#130
Not designed to kill? Really? Nobody is that naive.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#134
Designed to kill? Really, nobody is that clueless.	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#137
so in other words,	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#26
If one chooses to own dangerous items, yes!	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#30
we are talking a victim of theft	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#34
Oh, come on GE. You're one of the smarter members of this group.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#49
sorry	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#53
You just made the case for abstinance	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#55
What on earth are you talking about?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#59
How typical...	Clames	Mar 2012	#73
And if he did...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#74
It would be a sight more conducive to the discussion...	Clames	Mar 2012	#76
"Your side just can't get away from blaming inanimate objects. That is a problem in and of itself."	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#77
Really?	Clames	Mar 2012	#87
lol	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#89
Weak...	Clames	Mar 2012	#115
And there we have it.	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#124
Some may. I don't.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#127
So are you disavowing your "ultimate precaution" pronouncement?	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#132
You could call it dancing. Not a bad word.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#133
No, it's a good word.	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#138
What about a gun stolen from a Police Station? By your "logic" the cops shouldn't own guns.	sikorsky	Mar 2012	#141
You obviously don't know me.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#154
Mea culpa...I don't think I've ever known anyone who thinks American cops shouldn't have guns.	sikorsky	Mar 2012	#157
Which is why you are blaming the gun owner	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#56
Blaming one does not absolve the other	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#57
Then you also need to blame	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#60
You are being ridiculous.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#62
Absolutely	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#63
No.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#65
Oh. So the kid could have fired the gun	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#66
If the bullets were sold to the kid, then yes,	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#79
if the ammo was sold to the kid	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#86
Absolutely	SATIRical	Mar 2012	#88
Don't be ridiculous.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#93
if you think the uncle should be	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#64
Wrong	ProgressiveProfessor	Mar 2012	#8
I guess posting info from the Brady Campaign, a right-wing Republican	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#9
Brady Campaign = right-wing Republican?	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#12
So if you can post from Republican sites, so can everyone else, right?	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#25
Your characterization of the Brady Campaign as Republican is spurrious.	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#29
The Brady Campaign is non-partisan? ROFL	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#32
Yeah pretty much...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#39
Sure, as long as one of your anti-gun cohorts does it first	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#40
Shhblaaammm	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#42
Objectively?	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#37
last time I checked	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#31
So, what is a man's excuse?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#16
It's mainly a mental health problem	slackmaster	Mar 2012	#10
NO. It is a VIOLENCE PROBLEM.	Atypical Liberal	Mar 2012	#11
Brilliant. "the kind of firearm this kid used is about as "benign" a firearm as exists"	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#20
Sometimes all you can do with...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#24
Every firearm is a deadly weapon.	Atypical Liberal	Mar 2012	#50
"Every firearm is a deadly weapon."	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#52
Like I said, there is a reason why I put "benign" in quotes.	Atypical Liberal	Mar 2012	#58
As I have stated many times	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#61
"I am not advocating any gun control." Horseshit.	friendly_iconoclast	Mar 2012	#75
What does your quote have to do with gun control?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#78
When the same proposals are made in legislatures, they are acknowledged by all...	friendly_iconoclast	Mar 2012	#80
You confuse self control with gun control	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#97
You can't necessarily report something stolen or missing	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#100
More fool you for having so many guns and not protecting them	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#104
Sure, I'd give my guns to a "surrogate owner"	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#106
No, you wouldn't be responsible	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#108
Hang on, that's not what you said earlier	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#110
Allow me to explain	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#113
I'm thoroughly confused	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#116
More confused than I thought. Let's try one more time.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#118
Quit being condescending	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#120
Where and when did I suggest giving them to a friend?	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#121
Here	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#125
Your word , not mine. I would never give a gun to a friend.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#126
You didn't say "Professional Service", you said surrogate	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#155
for one thing	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#102
Good point, but I stand by it.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#119
"Responsibility and accountability" is the new "reasonable and common-sense"	friendly_iconoclast	Mar 2012	#81
How surprising that a proponent of handgun proliferation	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#99
because it is never defined	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#103
It's never defined	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#107
You are walking and talking like a duck.	Atypical Liberal	Mar 2012	#85
A very sane duck, I might add.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#91
Mental state notwithstanding, still a duck.	Atypical Liberal	Mar 2012	#105
I like ducks.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#109
I like to eat them.	Atypical Liberal	Mar 2012	#112
You enjoy shooting	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#90
No.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#92
Own any rifles or shotguns?	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#94
Not at present.	Starboard Tack	Mar 2012	#101
So, let me get this straight.	montanto	Mar 2012	#17
That's not what he argued.	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#18
correlation is not causation. I rest my case.	montanto	Mar 2012	#19
Without getting into the nitty gritty...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#21
even if he didn't steal it	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#22
Hypothetical. n/t	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#27
count on it	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#35
C'mon man. Drug dealers know guns are agin the law	shadowrider	Mar 2012	#28
I'll grant you that most would say the correlation is significant.	montanto	Mar 2012	#38
It's really not that complex...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#41
Mea culpa.	montanto	Mar 2012	#44
Agreed.	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#45
We agree, then, that proaction is solution oriented, and	montanto	Mar 2012	#46
No one takes action without belief...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#47
It's the brady bunch, who gives a rats ass what he thinks.	rl6214	Mar 2012	#43
Why blame an inanimate object?	Pacafishmate	Mar 2012	#67
No no...it's a gun, ask any Anti they'll tell you guns kill people...designed to kill no less.	ileus	Mar 2012	#83
So once again... it's okay if teenagers are troubled, bullied, teased, and become violent.	krispos42	Mar 2012	#129
Not at all...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#131
Nobody is saying that it "plays no role."	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#139
"that it's a supporting rather than a central role."	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#144
Yes, that's right.	Straw Man	Mar 2012	#159
Nobody is denying that access to firearms plays a role in this sort of thing	krispos42	Mar 2012	#142
"it has a measurable effect"	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#143
I don't think I've spent a lot of time advocating against safe storage.	krispos42	Mar 2012	#145
Awareness and prosecution...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#146
Required to buy a safe each time you buy a gun?	krispos42	Mar 2012	#147
My point exactly...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#148
No, THAT'S not an unreasonable regulation	krispos42	Mar 2012	#150
The laws are basically that...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#153
Right.	krispos42	Mar 2012	#156
Enforcement mechanism?	Clames	Mar 2012	#158
you missed his point	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#151
a safe for each gun	gejohnston	Mar 2012	#149
Already purchased...	ellisonz	Mar 2012	#152

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