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Straw Man

(6,613 posts)
22. For someone raised in a military family ...
Sat Mar 2, 2013, 06:10 PM
Mar 2013

... you sure have a lot of misconceptions about firearms in general and ARs in particular.

Accuracy - there are more accurate rifles out there. Specifically, I have heard the .223 rounds have a tendency to tumble.

Only if you mismatch the bullet weight with the twist rate of the barrel, which is something target shooters figure out shortly after they learn to tie their shoes.

Hunting - I have been hunting, and I have never used or seen used an AR in that context. It's not sporting. I had a friend who was a big game hunter, and even when he got his Cape Buffalo (reportedly the most dangerous animal to kill. They charge, and you have to hit them in the kneecaps to bring them down) he used a bolt action rifle.

What did you hunt? For varmints and feral hogs, ARs are quite popular. The rate of fire and the cartridge size are quite appropriate for those applications.

What is it that makes an AR unsporting? You do know that game laws dictate smaller magazines, right? So the old canard about riddling the game with bullet-holes is patently false.

Big game hunters don't use ARs because they want a much larger and more powerful cartridge than the intermediate cartridges for which the AR is typically chambered. Furthermore, for dangerous game they need absolute mechanical reliability, which pretty much rules out any semi-auto. Here rate of fire takes a backseat to pure power and total dependability. The last thing you want when a rhino is charging is a jammed rifle.

Excellent Defense Weapon - If you are sitting in Afganistan fighting a war, I agree. Any gun brought into the home raises your risk of death by several orders of magnitude. There is way too much data on this to argue the point.

So you categorically deny the possibility of armed self-defense? That's another argument, but certainly isn't germane to the AR alone. And you're wrong, by the way, since that data grossly underreports defensive use of firearms.

Fun to Shoot - OK, the two most fun guns I have ever shot: One - a marine target shooting rifle. A heavy .22 caliber with adjustable sights. I could hit anything with that rifle. Two - a bolt action 30.06 with a scope. I could hit anything, it kicked like a mule and blasted big, gaping holes in the tree trunks we used for targets. Point is, you don't need an AR to have fun.

Ah, the objective definition of "fun." What suffices for you should suffice for anyone, right?

Competitive Target Shooting - There are more accurate rifles, and serious target shooters don't use mass produced, cheap ARs. Check out what they are shooting with at the Olympics sometime.

Oh, I'm sorry, were we talking about banning only "mass produced, cheap ARs"? I thought we were talking about banning all of them. In any case, many serious shooters do use ARs.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/06/shooting-usa-covers-camp-perry-centennial-this-week/

https://www.google.com/search?q=camp+perry+national+match&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch

Olympic events use .22LR exclusively. None of the Olympic rifle events allow semi-autos. That's the way the IOC wants it, I guess.

Low Recoil - Once again, lots of other choices out there.

For low recoil in a centerfire rifle, it's hard to beat a .223 semi-auto. Shall we all just go to Mini-14s? Would that make us safer?

I think people buy ARs because they can. I know a lot of vets, and was raised in a military family. These men and women have been trained in the use of ARs, and are the most responsible gun owners I know. None of them own ARs. None. Every one of them keeps their GI weaponry where it belongs when they are stateside - locked up at the armory.

And I know lots of vets who own their own ARs and compete and train with them. ARs aren't "GI weaponry," in any case -- but you knew that. Soldiers aren't allowed to take their select-fire M4s home, no.
Get Sarah Palin to be the woman Tempest Mar 2013 #1
LOL! She kind of creeps me out, but I am not the target of this idea... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #3
"...getting hard cash?" More like getting hard. Sounds like a PeTAful effort. Eleanors38 Mar 2013 #2
Ha! Honestly, I did not read it that way when I posted it... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #4
Someone once said, "There's a fool born every minute." (n/t) spin Mar 2013 #5
If they offered up enough cash it could work. jmg257 Mar 2013 #6
I haven't let go of any @50-100 bucks each ileus Mar 2013 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Pullo Mar 2013 #9
LOL av8r1998 Mar 2013 #8
Fair market value + 20%? Pullo Mar 2013 #10
I was thinking full retail price plus a little... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #11
After the panic dies down .... Pullo Mar 2013 #12
Yeah right. guardian Mar 2013 #13
I am fairly certain Jenoch Mar 2013 #14
Here's the beauty of it... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #15
So you are for wasting billions, while solving nothing. Travis_0004 Mar 2013 #16
Fair enough, but... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #17
Home Defense av8r1998 Mar 2013 #18
Oh, lets see Pullo Mar 2013 #19
OK, I think these are valid reasons to own a long gun, not an AR... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #20
"Because they can..." is adequate reason. GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #21
For someone raised in a military family ... Straw Man Mar 2013 #22
Do you really want an answer? oneshooter Mar 2013 #25
I love it when 'hunters' out themselves. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #37
See Below Travis_0004 Mar 2013 #26
.30-06 "kicked like a mule"? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #38
.30-06 kicks more than .45-70.... Clames Mar 2013 #47
I don't have one of those. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #48
That 1917 would make a Ruger American feel like a feather. Clames Mar 2013 #49
I have no problem with Remington 180 grain Core-Lokt. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #50
45-70 is a pussycat sir pball Mar 2013 #56
Proper ARs are perfect hunting rifles. sir pball Mar 2013 #57
"The ARs are being destroyed, which makes rational gun-owners happy." Jenoch Mar 2013 #28
It worked in Australia. Really well. CapnSteve Mar 2013 #30
none during the decade before either gejohnston Mar 2013 #32
Australia did not have Jenoch Mar 2013 #39
Turn in a gun worth over a thousand for a kiss from a bimbo? GreenStormCloud Mar 2013 #23
-so- tempted to cross post this to HoF. Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2013 #24
Aaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha rl6214 Mar 2013 #27
OK, Everyone take a breath... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #29
Why not just have Bloomberg adopt everyone in the country and pay us all an allowance? jmg257 Mar 2013 #31
OK, Maybe removing the angst entirely is a bridge too far... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #33
There is always angst when faced with the loss of a loved one! :) nt jmg257 Mar 2013 #35
Good idea, make that happen... Clames Mar 2013 #34
Every industry has grey and black markets... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #42
Except they can't. Clames Mar 2013 #46
Another great idea in your response... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #53
economic bans? gejohnston Mar 2013 #54
Sounds about as sexist as the people who use women as sexual objects to sell guns. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #36
You are absolutely correct... CapnSteve Mar 2013 #40
I'd be interested in seeing a study on it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #41
Is that because the 06"kicks like a mule"? oneshooter Mar 2013 #43
Nope. She prefers the semi-auto, and lighter weight. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #44
Message auto-removed Gold_from_lead Mar 2013 #45
Trade hard steel for hard cash and a hard... Agnosticsherbet Mar 2013 #51
You know what's awful about this idea? ewagner Mar 2013 #52
As an AR owner...nice thought, but I think I'll pass, thanks. benEzra Mar 2013 #55
How about I just have my, ahh, sir pball Mar 2013 #58
This has to be without a doubt Homerj1 Mar 2013 #59
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