Reply #158

In the discussion thread: The Global March to Jerusalem, a brave and admirable attempt to awaken the world’s conscience [View all]

Response to Ken Burch (Reply #155)

Sun Apr 8, 2012, 12:30 PM

shira (18,062 posts)

158. But we all know how that would end. Another Goldstone...

Last edited Sun Apr 8, 2012, 01:14 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

Despite Goldstone being proven wrong and Israel's proven record WRT safeguarding civilians, the "world" would go apeshit when Israel defends itself from much worse coming out of the W.Bank.

How should Israel defend itself if the Gaza operation 3 years ago was barbaric?

We know how Israel will be attacked from the "moral powers that be" for daring to defend against such an onslaught. What motivation does this give Israel for going through with a withdrawal, if they can neither defend themselves or re-occupy?

I want a serious answer to that.

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222 replies	Author	Time	Post
The Global March to Jerusalem, a brave and admirable attempt to awaken the world’s conscience [View all]	Scurrilous	Mar 2012	OP
An Iranian backed human wave attack on the border.	Fozzledick	Mar 2012	#1
Don't you love it when "progressives" are promoting the Iran/Syria agenda?	shira	Mar 2012	#2
Really?	Owlet	Mar 2012	#3
Is there substantial evidence that they don't have the same agenda?	aranthus	Mar 2012	#5
Isn't that the point of it? n/t	aranthus	Mar 2012	#6
Things must be boring lately if a march has to be built up into an attack on Israel itself...	Violet_Crumble	Mar 2012	#14
zzzzzzzz	jimmie	Mar 2012	#4
Low turnout at anti-Israel march in Germany	King_David	Mar 2012	#7
Several rally participants expressed anger over the presence of Neturei Karta members, and a verbal	King_David	Mar 2012	#8
Wow	jimmie	Mar 2012	#10
LOL	King_David	Mar 2012	#12
Neturei Karta Rabbis beaten, insulted, sent away...	King_David	Mar 2012	#11
‘2-million-strong march to Jerusalem’ fizzles; anti-Zionist rabbis beaten at Jordan protest	shira	Mar 2012	#13
"they were rescued BY OTHER PARTICIPANTS"...THAT is the important feature	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#23
I must agree..	jimmie	Apr 2012	#24
No, the ones who BEAT the rabbis don't represent the true spirit of the march	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#26
The true spirit is represented in the 2 videos below (#21-22)	shira	Apr 2012	#27
You can't fairly claim to be a two-stater	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#28
Red herring. The "progressives" for Palestine are little more...	shira	Apr 2012	#29
so who appointed Ken Burch to be king?	pelsar	Apr 2012	#33
It's not about me, it's about what any Palestinian leadership can agree to	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#34
Here's the issue.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#36
actually its none of my business.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#39
I don't think Hamas did well in Gaza.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#40
and thats the point......you don't get it	pelsar	Apr 2012	#41
The Occupation can't be good for civil rights	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#43
we've seen your theory in action....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#45
You have nothing better to offer than letting people have self-determination	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#46
i asked about your theory.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#47
I don't have a particular "theory"	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#49
of course you have a theory.....(ok you believe it factual)....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#50
You assume that those results are the only possible outcome to self-determination	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#51
i'm waiting....still waiting for you to answer....still waiting and waiting	pelsar	Apr 2012	#53
I have answered.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#54
I never said it was the only possible outcome....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#55
I don't claim to have a "theory"	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#56
what????????????????	pelsar	Apr 2012	#57
Civil rights are still a relevant issue. What happened in Gaza doesn't change that.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#58
its not about the occupation, its about your political theory	pelsar	Apr 2012	#61
your tactics here are unfair.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#62
Ken, your political theory is a failure.	shira	Apr 2012	#63
Gaza wasn't a fair test	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#66
Ken, Gaza was more than a fair test...	shira	Apr 2012	#71
I don't have a "theology" just because I disagree with you and Netanyahu.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#74
Oh yes, of course. Your opponents here are rightwing pro-Netanyahu clones...	shira	Apr 2012	#75
who is "we" shira? as in "How are we wrong?" and more over what is that "we" are after?	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#68
Your opponents who see through the ruse. We're after real answers...	shira	Apr 2012	#70
what ruse shira? I do actually support a 2 state solution	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#78
The ruse about two states, peace, & human rights...	shira	Apr 2012	#82
First let's start with Olmert and Bawadi	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#100
Fine. But I want you to promise to go all the way with Olmert/Badawi...	shira	Apr 2012	#102
depends on your sources and what they say so no deal I do not agree to anything blindly	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#103
Aww, no deal. I thought so. My sources are ironclad...	shira	Apr 2012	#104
well okay then I did not know that we were bsing here but if you say so n/t	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#105
Fine, don't debate then. Anyway, here are the facts on Olmert and Badawi...	shira	Apr 2012	#107
shira that's old stuff you posted previously and none of it countermands	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#108
Of course, as expected. This is why you backed down...	shira	Apr 2012	#109
Lol knew said so in the first post after your 'challange' but I hardly backed down did I?	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#110
this has nothing to do with the occupation ...yet	pelsar	Apr 2012	#64
I think that people are much more likely to create a democratic state	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#65
i don't say you don't care...but you care first and foremost for a govt based on race....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#79
So those democracies were created IN SPITE of occupations.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#60
The STATUS QUO is a risk.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#67
Ken, how does ending the status quo benefit both sides?	shira	Apr 2012	#72
What's to gain from keeping things as they are?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#73
Because the alternative is worse. Like the Arab Spring...	shira	Apr 2012	#76
That isn't my position	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#77
and they owe us apologies...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#80
you are actually not just calling the Palestinians modern day Nazi's your accusing them of	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#81
i'm just drawing the parallels..that ken brought out...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#89
Stop blaming other people for what you post. YOU called Palestinians Nazis...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#94
of course its disgusting....so is kens post	pelsar	Apr 2012	#95
I don't care what you think of anyone else's post. I'm talking about YOUR post...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#106
the standard in this forum is to make extreme exaggerations -just don't use the "N" word	pelsar	Apr 2012	#112
What part of what I've said aren't you understanding? Stop blaming others for that ugly post...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#115
i understand perfectly what your saying.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#116
Yes, I'm saying I'm absolutely revolted by that post...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#117
the logic?....no there is no logic to it	pelsar	Apr 2012	#118
Yr still trying to blame others for that disgusting post. Stop trying to deflect...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#119
you confusing blame with motivation, i don't blame others, i was motivated by past posts.	pelsar	Apr 2012	#121
Blame? Motivation? It's the same thing. Yr not responsible for what you posted. They made you do it.	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#122
You didn't answer Pelsar's questions, Violet....	shira	Apr 2012	#123
actually there is a difference between motivation and blame...at least in my world	pelsar	Apr 2012	#124
There's no difference at all...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#127
nothing to steer away from....your disgust is my world, welcome to it	pelsar	Apr 2012	#129
Thanks for the explanation, pelsar...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#130
fair enough....i'll keep you in mind...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#132
For the record, the term"carpet-bombed"(a term I did later modify since I accepted	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#148
Why are you bringing up the lies about organ theft in association with MY post?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#147
thats a matter of opinion isn't it....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#176
I've made comments about the Israeli government	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#180
my reaction is "wow"....is your belief that extreme	pelsar	Apr 2012	#181
Are you STILL under the belief	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#182
i'm under the belief...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#187
I've had my values questioned all my life.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#189
its your preferences ..that i'm questioning...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#202
I DON'T prefer Hamas to anything	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#203
did you forget about arafat?	pelsar	Apr 2012	#205
What I meant was, why didn't the IDF leave BEFORE Arafat got back?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#206
its the reality again....really gets in the way.	pelsar	Apr 2012	#207
Look, will you tell me WHO these sainted local leaders were?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#208
i guess you didn't know anything about it?.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#209
It wasn't about SUPPORTING Arafat	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#210
Arafat destroyed everything with his corruption...or so say the Palestinians	pelsar	Apr 2012	#212
I'll agree that Arafat did a lot of damage	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#214
OK, just went to the link you provided.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#211
i guess the first paragraph is too long....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#213
I like all three of those people	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#215
you don't like leaving your "comfort zone"......uncomfortable?	pelsar	Apr 2012	#216
They have the right to be anti-Arafat-I don't like Arafat myself	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#217
can't end the war with the wrong policies.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#218
I agree that you can't end the war with the wrong policies	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#219
your avoiding the essence....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#220
Yeah, Arafat did make the wrong choices, I agree with that.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#221
what your missing is that he was the problem.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#222
Give me a break...	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#170
No, you give me a break...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#171
Of course I'm sure.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#174
Let me get this straight...	Violet_Crumble	Apr 2012	#175
Violet...	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#184
just a mirror? please pointing out the irony of complaining about Palestian nationalism	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#101
Sure seems like your position	shira	Apr 2012	#83
There's nothing that continuing the Occupation can do to abet the cause of human rights	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#84
Stop with the straw man arguments	shira	Apr 2012	#85
I've proven that right-wing nationalism does NOT come first to me. So don't ever say it does again	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#86
But it comes before Palestinian civil liberties under their leadership, right? n/t	shira	Apr 2012	#87
You're not really interested in having a discussion	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#88
Tell me in your parallel about the US.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#90
It ended up meaning very, very little that the words "all men are created equal"	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#91
Ken, you demand western style liberal actions from Israel but not from any...	shira	Apr 2012	#93
I want democracy everywhere.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#98
you miss the point....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#96
Will you please just admit that I don't WANT a right-wing nationalist state in Palestine?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#97
of course you don't want it....i never said you did (a right wing govt)	pelsar	Apr 2012	#113
What other alternative was there in Gaza?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#120
start with your being wrong..	pelsar	Apr 2012	#128
Preserving the status quo in Gaza was NOT an alternative	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#131
your stuck Ken....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#133
Palestine could be independent WITHOUT Hamas Occupation.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#134
your still stuck....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#135
no, I don't know.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#136
why?	pelsar	Apr 2012	#141
Do you HAVE to keep saying "Western civil rights"?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#142
because the definition of civil rights and human rights is cultural....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#144
I have never defended any of those things and you know it.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#146
you asked me why i write western rights and not "human rights"....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#161
please stop saying "you're stuck" and just TELL me what other option you're thinking of	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#165
It won't make a difference....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#166
I never attacked "Israelis"-I disagreed with some policies of the Israeli government, and that's	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#169
I'm not trying to silence you.....i happen to be a proponent of free speech...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#177
Ken, I know that I never see you ever bringing up Palestinian civil rights...	shira	Apr 2012	#92
If I was concerned about upsetting the powers-that-be in the ME, I wouldn't have supported	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#99
Ken, the point is that you were warned in advance WRT "post-Mubarak"...	shira	Apr 2012	#125
None of that is true	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#126
You prove my point. You can't criticize Hamas or the PLO....	shira	Apr 2012	#137
I said I didn't like Hamas. That IS criticism.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#138
I didn't say much about Mubarak prior to this year	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#139
thats really a very poor excuse.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#140
You don't say much about Mubarak/Hamas b/c civil rights there don't matter to you	shira	Apr 2012	#149
Stop accusing me of not supporting civil rights	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#151
You want it but you'll do nothing to help/assist liberals and progressives....	shira	Apr 2012	#153
I do want to assist them	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#156
Then you would have stood up for them during Mubarak rule...	shira	Apr 2012	#157
I did support the Iranian uprising. And I don't feel that either is hasbara.	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#159
So it's not hasbara to focus on Palestinian human rights in Lebanon...	shira	Apr 2012	#160
that was obvious.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#143
There were NO positive options that involved Israel retaining control of Gaza	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#145
Ken, I want you to acknowledge Israel's occupation is nothing like China/Tibet	shira	Apr 2012	#150
I never said it's currently like China's occupation of Tibet	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#152
You're bringing up Begin when Barak's agreement to Clinton's Initiatives were in 2000	shira	Apr 2012	#154
I'd be for Israel defending itself	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#155
But we all know how that would end. Another Goldstone...	shira	Apr 2012	#158
i'm waiting for you....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#162
You've lost me on the "anything other than the two options" thing	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#163
I suppose there could, in theory be a unitary state	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#164
What's most important to you?	pelsar	Apr 2012	#167
what's more important to me between what and what?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#168
Its not a trick question....its a touch of reality	pelsar	Apr 2012	#178
Will you please stop acting like I have a hidden agenda?	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#179
you don't have a hidden agenda...i'm just clarifying your stance...	pelsar	Apr 2012	#183
You are NOT clarifying my stance...you are distorting it beyond reason	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#185
can i quote you?	pelsar	Apr 2012	#188
They are corrupt, dictatorial thugs	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#193
I didn't ask what they are .....i asked if they are liberators.....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#195
I don't regard them as either and am not sure why I should have to choose	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#197
its called reality.....and its not always a very nice place	pelsar	Apr 2012	#199
I am open minded	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#200
It was never the case that the only choices	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#186
you "proof" never proves anything....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#190
really someone who used to post here ? who?	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#191
thats her....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#194
You can't seriously give the Occupation CREDIT for Intifada I	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#192
no..i actually don't want to go back to gaza....	pelsar	Apr 2012	#196
No, it did not. If it had, the people of Gaza would have supported that leadership	Ken Burch	Apr 2012	#198
tsk tsp tsk...your old habits are reappearing...making claims out of nowhere	pelsar	Apr 2012	#201
actually.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#30
ya it started about the time the British colonial ruler decided to give the Arabs land	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#31
I'm afraid you're mistaken.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#35
Oh so Balfour did not exist?	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#37
of course it did.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#38
Balfour promised a Jewish Homeland in Palestine period	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#42
right.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#59
thanks for the answer that I anticipated	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#69
you anticipated that?	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#111
ya I did because you've said it all before	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#114
You're changing the subject.	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#172
I answered your comments but I guess that is changing the subject?	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#204
"The Palestinian resistance is not based on hatred of Jews"	holdencaufield	Apr 2012	#32
quote "There was no Palestinian resistance when the territories were occupied by Jordan and Egypt"	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#44
Black September has nothing to do with Palestinians resisting occupation.	shira	Apr 2012	#48
as I was expecting this answer let me ask	azurnoir	Apr 2012	#52
seriously?	Shaktimaan	Apr 2012	#173
A little dubious of the NK folks being "beaten" at the protest	oberliner	Apr 2012	#25
Leading Global March to Jerusalem organizers embrace Gilad Atzmon	King_David	Mar 2012	#9
Nazi inspired Syrian Social Nationalist Party among GM2J crowd	shira	Mar 2012	#15
Nazi inspired ??	jimmie	Mar 2012	#16
Rubbing shoulders with "Leftists" for the cause. n/t	shira	Mar 2012	#17
Nazi inspired? " The Syrian Social Nationalist Party" began in 1932 before the Nazi party took over	azurnoir	Mar 2012	#18
The Nazi party existed prior to the SSNP	shira	Mar 2012	#19
perhaps you did not read what you posted it was tenuous at best and charges that there was any link	azurnoir	Mar 2012	#20
Disgusting display by PSC led GM2J (London Protest)	shira	Apr 2012	#21
Scenes from a London hatefest	shira	Apr 2012	#22

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