Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

pelsar

(12,283 posts)
61. you asked: if it bothers me..."
Wed Mar 21, 2012, 02:48 PM
Mar 2012
A lot of Israelis and international supporters of Israel oppose the settlement project(a program that is illegal, as we both know) and see the same thing I do...that the settlements actually endanger Israeli security by driving Palestinians, out of rage and desperation, into support of more extreme choices.

yes many oppose the settlement project...but not the occupation

gaza is why.....and you don't have an answer why hamas and friends keep on (almost daily) keep trying to murder us. Yes in case you didn't know that eastern fence of gaza and israel is a low level war zone...and yes hamas does control the occasional mortar, sniper fire and bomb laying attempts.

it can't because of an "humiliation" since the only checkpoints that exist are hamas checkpoints. It can't because they don't have freedom of movement since they are not attacking egypt, its not because of lack of materials, since they have two brand new 5 start hotels...

it can't be because of the settlements, israel fulfilled the "mantra of the left" that: its must do the big thing, must break the cycle, must show "good will"

..whats left, why are they trying to kill us? why do they even attack the goods entry points and stop when hamas says stop?

well?

The settlements have also bred a new generation of territorial expansionist whackjobs who are gaining great influence in Israeli politics. Please tell me that at least THAT bothers you...it should, since it puts the lives of you and your fellow soldiers at risk.

yes sharons "grab the hilltops" help create even more fanatics, and these have attacked, Palestenians and the IDF. I do believe they are probably the worst thing creation that israeli society has created, a wild youth with religious fanaticism that borders on hamas mentality. So yes it bothers me....but kassams and grads on major cities, or me and other having to enter the west bank as the IDF did in gaza bothers me more. So in the meantime we're stuck with those scumbags.

tell me when you have a solution for us with a PA dictatorship that either follows the gaza example, Lebanon example, syrian example, egyptian example.....they've already dumped western democratic values as per their own laws and actions (just do the research).....you do know this correct?

and if not, while they go through this road to democracy (irans road trip is over 30+ years and not going very fast are they....) and use us as their punching bag, are we supposed to just take it?

btw...how good at you at reading the future?...
The letter is a little hard to understand Mosby Mar 2012 #1
Many Palestinians and their 'supporters' consider the Israeli 'settlement' to be colonization azurnoir Mar 2012 #2
Atzmon was "an important anti-Palestinian propaganda tool" ? oberliner Mar 2012 #7
True most people have not heard of him but he has been brought up a number of times on this forum azurnoir Mar 2012 #8
Doesn't matter. This is all lipstick on a pig. shira Mar 2012 #3
thanks for the reply azurnoir Mar 2012 #4
You couldn't have asked for more? What does that mean? shira Mar 2012 #5
Nope I wouldn't change a word of your reply n/t azurnoir Mar 2012 #6
Which movement are you speaking of as "rotten", precisely? Ken Burch Mar 2012 #11
democratic, progressive ???? Hamas? Hizballa? Muslim brotherhood? pelsar Mar 2012 #12
I don't have to defend the oppression of an entire people to prove that I'm "tolerant". Ken Burch Mar 2012 #13
it could be asked if "crushing"Hamas is even possible azurnoir Mar 2012 #14
no hamas isn't going away... pelsar Mar 2012 #18
"all they have to do is not shoot at us"? Ken Burch Mar 2012 #39
"They weren't shooting at you in the Nineties" ? oberliner Mar 2012 #47
Fatah wasn't shooting at Israelis in the Nineties. I wasn't talking about Hamas Ken Burch Mar 2012 #51
History says differently. Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #57
You're acting as though Fatah and Hamas were conspiring together. Ken Burch Mar 2012 #65
Who cares. Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #75
I have a bullet somewhere in my closet eyl Mar 2012 #64
A lot of Palestinians have similar bullets Ken Burch Mar 2012 #67
Ken, you claimed Fatah wasn't shooting @ Israelis in the 1990's... shira Mar 2012 #68
No, it wasn't Ken Burch Mar 2012 #69
"Fatah did the best it could. Arafat changed & wasn't rewarded for it... shira Mar 2012 #70
The Israeli side didn't give up on settlements...it kept building them... Ken Burch Mar 2012 #71
So pretty much, all that crap you wrote about Fatah doing the best it could... shira Mar 2012 #72
No, it wasn't bullshit. Ken Burch Mar 2012 #73
If they moderated, then why'd they choose Intifada 2 when a state was offered? shira Mar 2012 #74
Not really eyl Mar 2012 #80
So you're advocating segregation and discrimination... Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #76
What does that have to do with the question? eyl Mar 2012 #79
Ken, how is it that this progressive movement hasn't said a word about Hamas or the PLO's... shira Mar 2012 #15
That's a big problem then. Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #16
That "Semi-autonomous democracy" was never treated as an equal entity by the Israeli governments Ken Burch Mar 2012 #20
so anything less than... Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #56
intolerance is intolerance.....is intolerance pelsar Mar 2012 #17
no...skepticism about what some folks claim is necessary in the name of "security" Ken Burch Mar 2012 #21
tsk tsk tsk......this is your quote...word for word: no squirming allowed pelsar Mar 2012 #22
I don't include the soldiers in that movement... Ken Burch Mar 2012 #24
nice rant....but its not the relevant pelsar Mar 2012 #27
I did say that it wasn't everybody who favors the Occupation Ken Burch Mar 2012 #31
this is not difficult.....you claim everyone who has a certain viewpoint is hateful.... pelsar Mar 2012 #33
Actually, it's not true that "when Hamas says 'stop', they ALL stop". Ken Burch Mar 2012 #36
The selective blindness is awe-inspiring... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #23
its irrelevant to me.....this sentence is relevent pelsar Mar 2012 #26
That's because yr engaging in selective blindness... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #28
its not blindness...i'm very clear. pelsar Mar 2012 #29
It is when yr totally ignoring the nasty generalisations in the post he replied to... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #30
thats why i'm asking Ken pelsar Mar 2012 #34
I've clarified enough Ken Burch Mar 2012 #37
If you not a bigot, then don't write like one...... pelsar Mar 2012 #42
A majority of Israelis support the Occupation...the settlements, not so much Ken Burch Mar 2012 #44
three key things Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #55
you asked: if it bothers me..." pelsar Mar 2012 #61
Singling out Ken doesn't hide the double standards at play, pelsar... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #53
and what is wrong with singling out ken? pelsar Mar 2012 #59
"lipstick on a pig"? Ken Burch Mar 2012 #40
It is simply a lie to say that everybody who supports Palestinian self-determination Ken Burch Mar 2012 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author shira Mar 2012 #45
I didn't say that. But I do believe the movement in general is rotten to the core. shira Mar 2012 #46
Atzmon is a lunatic, and unfortunately he has now parked himself on Britain. LeftishBrit Mar 2012 #9
Fine then. Atzmon is now totally marginalized and irrelevant. Ken Burch Mar 2012 #10
i dont understand... pelsar Mar 2012 #19
It's quite easy... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #25
Well-put. Thanks for that, Violet! Ken Burch Mar 2012 #38
just for the record: pelsar Mar 2012 #43
But I've never seen you condemn any violence carried out by Israel... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #54
That's not so at all. Shaktimaan Mar 2012 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author pelsar Mar 2012 #62
actually I don't write out "i condemn violence"... pelsar Mar 2012 #63
A Response To Ali Abunimah & Co. By Gilad Atzmon oberliner Mar 2012 #32
well if this move actually managed to unite azurnoir Mar 2012 #35
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #52
Former Israeli Jew? oberliner Mar 2012 #48
that struck me as well azurnoir Mar 2012 #49
ATzmon is an Israeli expatriate who has also become an antisemite. Ken Burch Mar 2012 #50
He is certainly a former Israeli LeftishBrit Mar 2012 #78
Truth is, I actually respected this guy once. AverageJoe90 Mar 2012 #60
Psychological causes have always struck me as being likely with Atzmon. Ken Burch Mar 2012 #66
Perhaps so, Ken, perhaps so. nt. AverageJoe90 Mar 2012 #77
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Israel/Palestine»Palestinian activists dis...»Reply #61