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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: Jevons: a 19th Century Zeno [View all]NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)66. You can't demand we talk about Jevon's without substantiating your premises
People aren't gifting you more efficient items they magically pull out of their ass. You are buying items with money you earn that need to be manufactured in the real world (which may cause more consumption and have nothing to do with Jevon's paradox)
You've bumbled through most of this thread while ignoring this.
I tried to help you with the lower wattage bulb example.
Yes, consumption does tend to increase on its own with growing wealth and growing population. But making an energy/tool more useful to a society should encourage that society to naturally use it more. That is really the bottom line of that very simplistic accounting of a real world phenomenon
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Jevons was making an observation about human psychology, not math or physics
phantom power
Jan 2013
#1
I don't think there's any implied statement about price of resources going down...
phantom power
Jan 2013
#12
Money made available as a result of efficiency doesn't need to be created by fiat.
GliderGuider
Jan 2013
#26
The $100 worth of energy I “saved” would have come from resource extraction
OKIsItJustMe
Jan 2013
#43
I will agree that improving efficiency does not correlate well with a society using less energy
OKIsItJustMe
Jan 2013
#67
Yes - fewer energy sources, fewer manufactured goods, greater transportation costs,
GliderGuider
Jan 2013
#69
“A better example would be people simply switching to a lower wattage traditional bulb…”
OKIsItJustMe
Jan 2013
#25
Those studies were done in the early 80s regarding efficiency standards implemented in late 70s
NoOneMan
Jan 2013
#51
"Economic Implications of Mandated Efficiency Standards for Household Appliances."
NoOneMan
Jan 2013
#55
Can you document this? (i.e. that more efficient cars lead to more consumption.)
OKIsItJustMe
Jan 2013
#41
The specific Jevons-style rebound is probably less significant than general growth
GliderGuider
Jan 2013
#30
In any case, it isn't a strict "rule" but an explanation of observed market behavior
NoOneMan
Jan 2013
#31
Fine, but what's relevant to you is not close to being relevant to society as a whole
wtmusic
Jan 2013
#94
Presuming that society on a whole will not lower the carbon-intensity of their energy
NoOneMan
Jan 2013
#96
In general, we are going about pretending we don't even have to think about these matters
NoOneMan
Jan 2013
#90
With transglobal corporate monsters ruling all, Zeno's paradox certainly applies to you and me...
Peace Patriot
Jan 2013
#76