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Blanks

(4,835 posts)
77. I'm aware that it sounds racist.
Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:17 AM
Jan 2013

The reality is that the poorer school districts have fewer resources, so they have larger class sizes and very often that happens in predominantly African American neighborhoods.

I'm sure you know that; I'm just letting you know that I know it too. One of the tragic things about it is that I think most of these kids have a lot of potential that will not be realized.

I disagree with your assertion that putting them in areas with dividers would be bad for them. First of all I'm not suggesting that all kids should be in computer labs with dividers all day, and I'm not suggesting that all kids be put in areas with dividers at all. I'm merely suggesting that for certain subjects and certain students that demonstrate an ability to work self-paced; we put them in an environment like that for some class periods. I'm not advocating for having all students in an environment like that all day. They'd all end up with no social skills (like engineers ).

I appreciate your engineering analogy, but one of the things about engineering is the review process. You don't build a structure without a review by an engineer from the government. The materials have to be approved by an engineer. A lot of engineering is about studying failure. There are engineering properties for every kind of material and those properties are used in the calculations that are submitted for approval to the city. We know the limit of these materials because experiments are performed in labs until the material fails. Steels have a 'modulus of elasticity' based on those failure tests and forces and moments are determined based on load. Then a factor of safety is applied. I'm not a structural engineer, but it seems like a factor of 3 to 4 is standard. In other words; you determine the maximum load and then multiply that times 3 or 4 to size your materials.

I only tell you this because that's what I'm talking about with students. Obviously you can't develop a 'formula' for how many kids can be confined to a cubicle for a self-paced segment of the day that is applicable across all neighborhoods, but evaluation criteria can be developed to optimize such factors as 'cubicle size', 'distance between adult monitors', 'check in frequency/student' etc.

If the problem is that we need to reduce class size; that's how I would approach the problem: Have larger class sizes for students who need less individual attention, so that more educators can be dedicated to the students that need more individual attention. I don't believe there is a 'style they learn best' that fits all children. The style you describe did not work for my kids; they performed best when allowed to work at their own pace.

Determining optimum size would be an iterative process. As i said, I would start with 200. Maximum acceptable may turn out to be only 30, in which case the entire study would have turned out to be a failure, but studying failure is a big part of engineering.

K&R'd. snot Jan 2013 #1
Moderates doing their best to dismantle the social net. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #2
I can't speak for the teacher situation Flatpicker Jan 2013 #3
This kind of shit seems to only happen to poor kids' schools. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #4
Yes, that's all very........coincidental, mbperrin Jan 2013 #9
Thanks, mbperrin, for the historical perspective for how we got to the present situation We People Jan 2013 #17
61 students??? Hissyspit Jan 2013 #5
Sure, for the great unwashed. But at Romney's Cranbrook School, only 12 high schoolers per class.nt SunSeeker Jan 2013 #12
Disgusting. People, students or teachers, are not widgets. I guess it's more likely someone will Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2013 #6
I teach in a school where this sounds quite familiar. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #7
That's certainly descriptive LWolf Jan 2013 #8
Every industry has been effected by technology in the past 40 years. Blanks Jan 2013 #10
Video may be a great way to teach engineers, but not 8 year olds. nt SunSeeker Jan 2013 #11
I see your point. Blanks Jan 2013 #13
Charter schools? I thought you wanted videos replacing teachers. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #15
I appreciate your thoughtful response. Blanks Jan 2013 #18
Cool. Sounds like we're in agreement. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #19
Schools were using computers before the education deformers got started. They were using HiPointDem Jan 2013 #20
The problem that the education industry is going through now... Blanks Jan 2013 #22
The education 'industry'? wtf are you talking about? FYI it's *Khan* academy & the reason HiPointDem Jan 2013 #23
Perhaps referring to a 'field of work' as an industry is a shortcut... Blanks Jan 2013 #24
A definite YES to these two points: Smarmie Doofus Jan 2013 #27
I'm glad you agree... Blanks Jan 2013 #29
"Bloated" administration? I teach in a large urban high school of 3600+ enrollment. mbperrin Jan 2013 #48
The bloated administration isn't in the building. Blanks Jan 2013 #70
Nah. We've got a superintendent, an assistant super, an athletic director, and a fine arts director, mbperrin Jan 2013 #71
I think the best education reform... Blanks Jan 2013 #79
Your building admins work 14 hours per day? *Fourteen*. Every day. Smarmie Doofus Jan 2013 #72
Actually, it's more like 6:30 am to 8:30 pm, typically. mbperrin Jan 2013 #75
Sounds Like "The Last Picture Show". Meaning.... Smarmie Doofus Jan 2013 #76
Ours do. Easily. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #83
Outsiders all too often don't know what they are talking about. duffyduff Jan 2013 #16
I believe educational activity falls within the definition if industry. Blanks Jan 2013 #21
I think you're viewing this inaccurately. savebigbird Jan 2013 #25
I recognize that teachers are professionals... Blanks Jan 2013 #31
Would your wife's client tell her HOW to achieve savebigbird Jan 2013 #36
Yes, they try to direct the approach... Blanks Jan 2013 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author savebigbird Jan 2013 #49
"Customer service" implies catering to the clients, even if they are wrong. madfloridian Jan 2013 #47
I agree. Blanks Jan 2013 #80
It's not about database tracking. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #26
There is no doubt that certain subjects require... Blanks Jan 2013 #28
I think your availaility bias is showing. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #30
Teachers don't lecture anymore. proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #32
Lecturing went out a couple of decades ago eh? Blanks Jan 2013 #33
Well, I didn't make the decision to stop lecturing. proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #34
I'm not sure what's more discouraging about this... Blanks Jan 2013 #35
I'm not making anything up. proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #38
Lets review. Blanks Jan 2013 #39
Happy to find out that civil engineering is so perfected that we no longer have mbperrin Jan 2013 #50
Just sayin, you rock! knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #55
It sounds like you are a very well qualified educator. Blanks Jan 2013 #64
Not to be disrespectful but, seriously, your availability bias is showing again. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #54
I wish I could accept your challenge. Blanks Jan 2013 #63
I'm the non-engineer in the family. I know and understand that. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #73
I'm not going to go back over why I'm not fighting to get the school to do their job. Blanks Jan 2013 #78
Parents of high-needs students do have responsibilities. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #81
I found your description of your visit to a classroom funny. Not sure where that school was, HiPointDem Jan 2013 #60
I visited probably 30 different classrooms... Blanks Jan 2013 #62
and the teacher you are purporting to educate *lives in* an urban classroom every fucking HiPointDem Jan 2013 #66
Again, I'm not purporting to educate anyone... Blanks Jan 2013 #68
That "difficult" class sounds like my typical day. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #74
I'm aware that it sounds racist. Blanks Jan 2013 #77
Those studies already exist and don't need to be duplicated. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #82
Hey... proud2BlibKansan... You've Met These Guys Before... WillyT Jan 2013 #42
And they are the first ones to complain proud2BlibKansan Jan 2013 #43
Here's My Solution... WillyT Jan 2013 #44
Education has changed considerably since your brother was in school... savebigbird Jan 2013 #37
Schools already use labs (computer, audio, video) for various purposes, & one is for individualized HiPointDem Jan 2013 #45
The number 200 was arbitrarily chosen. Blanks Jan 2013 #46
Why an attorney would not know that every state has procedures of appeal mbperrin Jan 2013 #51
She is aware of the law. Blanks Jan 2013 #65
Well, I'm sorry that the district there is so disorganized and unhelpful. mbperrin Jan 2013 #67
Thanks for your kind words. eom Blanks Jan 2013 #69
Spam deleted by Ms. Toad (MIR Team) gophatercali1955g Jan 2013 #86
What is enraging me is that she's coming home bruised. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #84
So do I, thanks for your support. eom Blanks Jan 2013 #85
I'm so tired of the "dumb teacher" canard. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #56
One of the mistakes about this is that identifying "where they need to fix it & where the patrice Jan 2013 #53
This. All kinds of this. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #57
It's Taylorization of education. Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #14
K&R. Thanks! Sharing with colleagues. Riley18 Jan 2013 #40
This is also going on in IT; watch for more and more beta being placed in production. The key to patrice Jan 2013 #52
+1. that's the point; the speed-up goes on in every industry, not just blue-collar manufacturing. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #58
So the projection is for more done by fewer, faster, & for less @ hr. Ergo, the main solution, patrice Jan 2013 #59
I don't know if they can be stopped. But the direction we're going leads toward the abandonment HiPointDem Jan 2013 #61
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