Lean Production: Inside the war on public education

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39. Lets review.

You claimed:

And no, you can't put 200 pre-adolescent and adolescents in a room together, give them an assignment on a computer, and expect them to work at their own pace. That's downright comical. 150 of them would find a way around the system within minutes to post on Facebook, look at porn or play video games, 25 would put their heads down and sleep, 15 would be up roaming the room trying to start stuff with the other kids and 10 would maybe do the assignment.

First you point out that it's comical to even think that you could put that many students together; then you do a breakdown of all of the activities of the group that you had obviously not put together.

Where I come from that is exactly what 'making things up' looks like. What my experience with 8th graders looks like doesn't change the fact that you made up values for a hypothetical experiment.

Perhaps that seems like nitpicking to you, but if you did that in an engineering environment; people would be all over you. You perform an experiment before you report the results.

If you know what motivates people (in this case you assume Facebook) then that information can be used to solve the problem (in this case the children trying to get out of work) by not allowing them access to Facebook until they've accomplished X amount of work, and then limiting the time they spend on Facebook (or whatever they choose to do with their time) until they've completed another segment. Limiting Internet access to 8th graders is hardly rocket science. Certainly completely denying access to porn sites is not any kind of challenge at all. The ones who are trying to 'start something' need a more restrictive environment.

Controlling the behavior of people that you can't physically control is nothing new to civil engineers. Over the years roadways have become safer and more efficient through the use of 'clear zones' and eliminating other roadside hazards with devices such as guardrail and barrels with water, recoverable slopes, signs etc. So I reject the assertion that any group of people can't be controlled. We study methods of controlling pedestrian traffic, and the pedestrians (for the most part) do what we want them to do without instruction. I expect controlling the behavior of young people in a confined space would have a different set of challenges, but the same basic problem solving techniques would apply. Temple Grandin (though she is not a civil engineer) controls the behavior of large animals without any contact at all

When I was in 8th grade; it was typical for my classmates who were from farm families to spend their summers on a tractor and I spent time putting up hay bales. Adults had huge expectations for our abilities. It's a shame that we currently put them in an environment where adults have such low expectations of their abilities.

When I gave my presentations to 8th graders; I treated them with respect; asked them questions and they did their best to answer them. I gave my presentation to urban children, rural children, black children and white children for anywhere from 50 minutes to an hour and 40 minutes and from 10 students to maybe 50 at the most. If they were screwing around; I relocated them in the classroom.

I started my 'lecture' by explaining to them: "I didn't know what engineers did when I graduated from high school and they may not get another opportunity to visit with an engineer. While engineering is not for everyone; if you are interested in math and science; engineering is a high paying industry that makes extensive use of math and science."

Without exception the 8th (sometimes 7th) graders were respectful and reasonably attentive.

I'm sure you're a good teacher. I also expect that you believe it can't be done because it probably wouldn't work well for the subject matter that you teach.

I went on this rather lengthy rant because you told me that it couldn't be done and then told me why you believed that it couldn't. Not only do I think it can be done; I believe I could do it.

Also, not only do I think it can be done, but I believe it should be done on subjects where a students interests in a subject may exceed a teachers background experience. I'm not saying that to be disrespectful to professional educators; young people have access to the latest information that adults frequently do not (more free time). A lot of subjects (like computer programming, engineering, math etc) require intense concentration and people need to be separated in order to achieve that focus; the subjects are also constantly evolving and I expect what a teacher learned in college, after only a few years, may be obsolete. That's certainly how it is with engineering software.

I don't think we should prevent children from learning subjects that require isolation and concentration just because we are afraid the majority of them will just screw around. Even if the majority of them will just screw around.