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mojowork_n

(2,354 posts)
18. Good questions.
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 03:19 PM
Jun 2012

The only thing I can think of is what Will Rogers once famously said.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

I don't know why that is. When you ask Republicans what they need
to win, the answer is often some synonym for "ammunition." When you
ask Democrats, they say, "information." Republicans have so much less
difficulty staying on message because they're so often arguments by
assertion: "Bidness GOOD, Gubmint BAD;" or "that ***** in
the White House is what's screwin' up this country and our economy."

or any one of the other endless variations on that theme.

A parallel from military history would be undisciplined barbarians (Good
God, did Marcus Bachman have a lesson to teach us?) attacking a
Greek phalanx, or Roman "turtle."

But when the Huns came along, riding their tough little steppe ponies
in cohesive, flexible units, things changed. They had compound bows
that could shoot arrows through armor and it was all over for the
permanent Roman majority.

It's kind of gross comparing perception management/information warfare
with democracy but I'm just trying to say I think I follow your very
important point -- why isn't our side better organized?

In this election, specifically, I can give you just one answer. During the
time that there was no one stepping up against Walker, before the
primary (which had to be held, I think, to allow the Republicans to run
some fake-democrats in the legislative primaries), the focus on our
side was supposed to have been on making the case for the recall,
generally, regardless of who our candidate was going to be.

Procedurally, that could have been our time in "turtle" formation -- all
the arrows flying out from our side, against Walker's actual record as
governer of Wisconsin -- with no one for him to attack directly.

But that didn't really happen. That was also the time that, by law,
according to the rules that were written into the state constitution
by the original Progressives ("Fighting" Bob Lafollette and all the rest
of them) the party being challenged had a right to raise unlimited
funds for their own use, in the recall election. We saw that money
being spent right away, not just on TV ads, but on general perception
management. For example, the state's largest circulation daily, the
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel runs it's own variant on the "Politifact"
franchise. When congresswoman Gwen Moore asserted that Gov.
W. had "gutted" tax credits for the poor and elderly, the savants
who wrote the analysis of her credibility decided her choice of
adjectives was unnecessarily harsh. After a review of actual facts
that showed that, in truth, credits for the poor and elderly were
noticeably lower than they had been formerly, they asked....

"....does that amount to 'gutting' the credit?.... even staunch
advocates of the credit think Moore's 'gutting' description went
too far."

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/may/10/gwen-moore/rep-gwen-moore-says-gov-scott-walker-gutted-tax-cr/

The fact that the credit continued to exist, in an admittedly
reduced form, was enough to discredit Congresswoman Moore's
main point. Which was true.

That same kind of stuff helped to distract from and obscure the
main message of the recall.

PS -- one other observation, sort of along the same lines. Early on,
when the recall was just getting started, I went up to the north
side JCC to listen to John Nichols lay out the message and get
people energized for the petition drives that were still to come.
John went all the way back to before the Civil War. It was a history
lesson on the abolitionists and the very proud tradition of Wisconsin
standing up to oppose injustice, during and after the Civil War and
the Robber Baron era that followed. That was what framed the
whole effort to have rules for recall written in to the state
constitution.

But people back then must have had much better attention spans.

The day before the election, I saw this younger dude crouching
over a copy of our local alternative weekly, "The Shepherd Express,"
which had an article summarizing the reasons for the recall, and why
people should be voting for Barret.

"There's too many words here," he said. "There should be bullet
points. Not so many long paragraphs."

The prose was too dense and I didn't have a word to interject or
a reply to make.

I was one lonely barbarian riding around with my compound bow,
but when I turned to look for an arrow, or another group of
horsemen riding around, or some other resource or ally, I didn't
know where to go.

...I found out later that dude did end up voting for Barret. I think a
whole lot of people made that same decision, privately. I'm just afraid
we'll never really know -- with 100% certainty or reliability -- how
many of them there really were.


Here's what I don't understand. CrispyQ Jun 2012 #1
There are MANY here in Wisconsin scratching our heads Greybnk48 Jun 2012 #2
To me it does not pass the smell test at all Botany Jun 2012 #3
I agree that it smells funny. Greybnk48 Jun 2012 #11
Big Money rigged the voting machines itsrigged Jul 2012 #50
I had not heard that.... Do you have a source or a link... On election day midnight Jun 2012 #4
There was a huge campaign based on this message. CrispyQ Jun 2012 #5
Pages of info. discussing this election are going missing.. midnight Jun 2012 #29
a guy in my office got that call mzteris Jun 2012 #9
I cant imagine that made much of a dent in the voter turnout (which was very high statewide) -nt eowyn_of_rohan Jun 2012 #40
I wouldn't overlook the possibility of election fraud... NorthCarolina Jun 2012 #13
Actually, look at the results, compare the votes for Barrett 2010 and 2012. L. Coyote Jun 2012 #14
Yes, of course, and mojowork_n Jun 2012 #17
Indeed, people will sit out recall elections, more on one side than the other L. Coyote Jun 2012 #19
Television Rules the Nation (Daft Punk) mojowork_n Jun 2012 #20
Do you have a link that says that? midnight Jun 2012 #30
Voter turnout was HUGE in most of the state - record high turnout in a number of areas eowyn_of_rohan Jun 2012 #41
Here's a link... mojowork_n Jun 2012 #45
Enron was a master of numbers too... Please post a link to where you got the numbers... midnight Jun 2012 #33
What, you think I'm posting false election results? ROFLMAO L. Coyote Jun 2012 #34
The request was for your source, whatever it was. mojowork_n Jun 2012 #46
Start with a flawed method L. Coyote Jun 2012 #48
Honestly, I really believe that dotymed Jun 2012 #6
Will there be a re-count? And what kind of checking did the DOJ supposedly do? dmosh42 Jun 2012 #7
good question. Maybe they were with the tea party thugs who were harrassing and intimidating vot eowyn_of_rohan Jun 2012 #42
That's a statement of belief, and belief looks for the confirmation it needs to be reified HereSince1628 Jun 2012 #8
Confirmational bias is something a person can mojowork_n Jun 2012 #21
Acting on the notion "If I can think it, then someone is doing it" was HereSince1628 Jun 2012 #24
It has been proven, dozens of times, that dotymed Jun 2012 #27
i have no time or patience for those who choose to remain willfully ignorant on this... eowyn_of_rohan Jun 2012 #43
There are two entirely separate questions involved. mojowork_n Jun 2012 #28
Nothing illogical about inspecting the source code because that is the evidence... midnight Jun 2012 #31
Thank you. sybylla Jun 2012 #37
a major problem we have are the clerks and pollworkers who continue to defend voting machines. eowyn_of_rohan Jun 2012 #44
Sorry. mojowork_n Jun 2012 #47
If the result was pre-determined, why spend so much cash on ads? Sirveri Jun 2012 #26
The whole claim that people voted for Walker because they were against the recall on principle drm604 Jun 2012 #10
EXCELLENT JOB, BRAD!!!! loudsue Jun 2012 #12
Just wondering SoutherDem Jun 2012 #15
Good questions. mojowork_n Jun 2012 #18
The recall election schedule is set by the Wisconsin constitution dragonlady Jun 2012 #23
Thanks for the answer SoutherDem Jun 2012 #25
Recall timeline determined by our constitution. sybylla Jun 2012 #38
The comments following the post bradblog video have a few more details mojowork_n Jun 2012 #16
This information only supports the fact that of all the tools used in this election nothing was more midnight Jun 2012 #32
That's the 64 bazillion dollar question, the extent to which mojowork_n Jun 2012 #35
PS mojowork_n Jun 2012 #36
Mojowork just saw this.... Thanks... I was aware of this before the election. midnight Jun 2012 #49
Two things: xfundy Jun 2012 #22
Like Microsoft? gregoire Jul 2012 #51
shocking fea5625252fe Jun 2012 #39
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