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white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
76. Yeah I think that's a good call. I'll second your vote for locking it.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 01:52 PM
Jul 2012

I really don't think this thread will result in anything, but people being mad at each other.

sounds boring BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #1
So does eight years of peace and prosperity Taverner Jul 2012 #2
Just to be clear those names do define different ideologies. white_wolf Jul 2012 #3
That was early on. After Trotsky went after the Anarchists, and Stalin took power Taverner Jul 2012 #4
there were a lot of fine people that supported the purges BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #30
Well if Dorothy Parker was pro-purges, I'm pro-purges. LooseWilly Jul 2012 #37
How do you keep capitalist states from eating your lunch without central control? Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #5
Well the failures of the anarchists in Spain weren't due to lack of central control. white_wolf Jul 2012 #6
I was just speaking generally. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #7
It also didn't help that Stalin was purging any non-Bolshiveks from the Spanish Republic Taverner Jul 2012 #8
n/m BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #9
I would not consider that a balanced view since it was written... joshcryer Jul 2012 #19
The Spanish Anarchists were outnumbered and weakened by the Popular Front. joshcryer Jul 2012 #17
BTW, the anarchist spirit still exists in Spain: joshcryer Jul 2012 #20
If anarchists organize, are they still anarchists? LooseWilly Jul 2012 #38
Your argument of comparing Anarchism to Somali is really poor. white_wolf Jul 2012 #47
Anarchists never actually took power in Spain. LooseWilly Jul 2012 #55
Anarchist Catalonia disagrees with you. As does Orwell. joshcryer Jul 2012 #72
Yup, that remains the problem. The Paris Commune lasted all of 2 months or so. nt TBF Jul 2012 #10
I had a picture in my mind of Kissinger getting the now pissed off MIC to rally around him Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #11
Capitalism itself hinges on central control. Without it they are made irrelevant. joshcryer Jul 2012 #15
isnt anarchism basically socialism w/ the marxism excised? BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #21
Nah, most anarchists agree with 95% of Marxism. joshcryer Jul 2012 #32
The "central power structure" (i.e. the state), under Marxism, is just a word for "the workers"... LooseWilly Jul 2012 #39
Workers themselves do not constitute a "state." joshcryer Jul 2012 #42
The workers themselves DO constitute a "state" if they take over the "machinery" of a state and LooseWilly Jul 2012 #49
The "machinery of a state" are the police and property systems they've implemented. joshcryer Jul 2012 #69
I understand the theory (though don't agree) Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #23
The only way I can see it happening is if the anarchist federation... joshcryer Jul 2012 #33
The what what? The "anarchist federation"?? Is that like the "socialist business league"?? LooseWilly Jul 2012 #40
Mars or something. joshcryer Jul 2012 #41
"Shit ain't happening with significant influence from capitalists and totalitarians"? Really? LooseWilly Jul 2012 #46
Well obviously you can't expect to ignore the capitalists. white_wolf Jul 2012 #48
I think you've voiced something that I've always thought was an essential point. LooseWilly Jul 2012 #50
The USSR accomplished a great deal. I've made that point in GD on this site several times. white_wolf Jul 2012 #51
I guess I'm enough of a fan of Lenin to think that a socialist Greece can stand alone. LooseWilly Jul 2012 #56
You do realize the mere fact that I disagree with his theories doesn't make him an asshole,right? white_wolf Jul 2012 #59
Everyone that I disagree with is an asshole... it's just a rhetorical flourish, no need to blush... LooseWilly Jul 2012 #65
Gorbachev did not cede to the west, he ceded to the Eastern Bloc. joshcryer Jul 2012 #70
Your post touches on the heart of this whole debate. white_wolf Jul 2012 #73
I'm tired of dealing with a highly antagonistic person like yourself. joshcryer Jul 2012 #68
About your mod question: white_wolf Jul 2012 #74
I'd vote for locking the thread. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #75
Yeah I think that's a good call. I'll second your vote for locking it. white_wolf Jul 2012 #76
Post #40 is where the antagonism started. joshcryer Jul 2012 #79
Central control in the hands of a Vanguard isn't the only means of control. white_wolf Jul 2012 #27
Well, as a worker, I've had experience with councils and committees. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #29
firmly in the hands of the workers IS THE THEORY... LooseWilly Jul 2012 #43
Here is my biggest problem with Marxism... white_wolf Jul 2012 #12
And one of the reasons I am for a decentralized system Taverner Jul 2012 #13
Same. In a centralized system corruption can be at the top, and you can't get rid of it. joshcryer Jul 2012 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #14
It could, in theory, if power didn't corrupt. joshcryer Jul 2012 #16
did you ever look up the guy who came up w/ that saying? BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #26
So what? Heinlein has the worst politics ever... joshcryer Jul 2012 #31
what about the soviet union (RIP) BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #22
Or Somalia. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #24
its seem to me that BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #25
Yeah, that's how I see it too. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #28
Ethio-Somali War joshcryer Jul 2012 #34
I didn't mean to imply that the Soviets supported Somalia at that time, sorry about that. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #35
I know what you're saying. I remember a good source for that. joshcryer Jul 2012 #36
If power is "centralized" in the hands of the workers, then the state, as an apparatus of oppress- LooseWilly Jul 2012 #44
Fair point. Perhaps I should have rephrasied my subject title to say something like: white_wolf Jul 2012 #45
What part of Leninism has you hung up? LooseWilly Jul 2012 #52
Your views on Trotskyism are rather inaccurate. white_wolf Jul 2012 #54
I was hoping to have you enlighten me on Trotskyism... but alas you present merely platitudes... LooseWilly Jul 2012 #58
You know if you actually want to know what Trotsky's views were... white_wolf Jul 2012 #60
Unfortunately I'm a prole myself.. and I have to be at work in 4 1/2 hours... LooseWilly Jul 2012 #67
It seems like maybe oppression in the USSR was not so much against limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #57
+100. I don't know why no one said any of that before. white_wolf Jul 2012 #61
probably Noam Chomsky said that limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #63
I am perplexed. Do you feel like you aren't subject to "arbitrary unfair decisions by bureaucrats.." LooseWilly Jul 2012 #62
oppression, limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #64
I can't say that USSR Communism was oppression with any certainty, no. LooseWilly Jul 2012 #66
Rosa Luexmburg joshcryer Jul 2012 #71
Cool thanks. limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #83
A contradiction in terms. n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #53
Good for you! earthside Jul 2012 #77
Under this plan, would everyone receive the same ammount zzaapp Jul 2012 #78
Depends. The OP has 3 plans. joshcryer Jul 2012 #80
Thanks for the clarifications. Taverner Jul 2012 #81
Thanks Josh, I'm a little new to this sort of thinking zzaapp Jul 2012 #82
Please feel free to start a new OP on this. Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #84
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