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Response to white_wolf (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:40 AM

55. Anarchists never actually took power in Spain.

And if they had, they wouldn't be anarchists, would they? They'd be an organized government... which is, by definition, not an anarchy.

Who ever said that the working class holds power in an anarchy? If they do, it's not anarchy.

If anarchists claim that working people holding power is anarchy, then they're claiming Marxism as anarchism and they're plagiarists. If they want to establish a Marxist system of worker power without a state, then they're delusional and haven't learned from what the USSR faced when they tried to establish a workers state.

I don't argue one way or the other, or even really care one way or the other, if there "is still market" in Somalia... there is no central government in Somalia.

That is the definition of Anarchy.

If you are trying to argue in favor of a Utopian Anarchy, with a non-state State wherein the workers are in charge of... not being in charge (?, non-state, remember... no one in charge)... and they... collectively do everything that a society needs, but without a state to enforce anything... and without forming a state in order to ensure that everyone participates, rather than slacking or profiteering... and somehow manage to do so without a bureaucracy to try to organize all their production, not to mention distribution... I don't think such a system could possibly exist even at the size of the county I live in, let alone the state, and no-fucking-way at a national level... and even if it was managed on such a small scale as to be less-than-county-sized... without a greater bureaucracy it could never be organized up to the level and scope of the county I live in... let alone the state... which means such a system would be an invite for Mexico (or more likely the Zetas, or some other cartel) to move in, shoot a couple of workers... and take over.

Utopian Anarchistic Socialism can't co-exist with modern global powers and survive. It will be swallowed up like the various tribes of the Sioux who failed to join forces (or so my racist history book suggests) in the face of a more numerous and better armed aggressor (the US).

And once that happens, the workers will be oppressed all over again... just as after the Paris Communes... overrun and metaphorically "re-shackled".

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Taverner Jul 2012 OP
BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #1
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white_wolf Jul 2012 #3
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LooseWilly Jul 2012 #37
Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #5
white_wolf Jul 2012 #6
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Taverner Jul 2012 #8
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joshcryer Jul 2012 #19
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LooseWilly Jul 2012 #38
white_wolf Jul 2012 #47
LineLineLineLineLineReply Anarchists never actually took power in Spain.
LooseWilly Jul 2012 #55
joshcryer Jul 2012 #72
TBF Jul 2012 #10
Starry Messenger Jul 2012 #11
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BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #21
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white_wolf Jul 2012 #27
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white_wolf Jul 2012 #12
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