Response to AProgressiveThinker (Original post)
Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:10 PM
Shankapotomus (4,836 posts)
16. With all due respect,
I think you are attributing social inequities and injustices to Feminism. Social inequities and behavioral exaggerations can be perpetrated by members of any group. It's wrong to label those extreme solutions as "Feminism" because some "feminists" suggest them.
There is a legitimate debate over whether men have been evolved to be hyper aggressive and what to do about it. In part, the fault lies not only with men (of the boys club variety) but with some women who value those aggressive, hyper "alpha" males over males with more egalitarian awareness and docility, thus perpetuating the genes of the personality of their own oppressors.
So I think you are mistakenly identifying yourself with that hyper aggressive "alpha" male, oppressor type by simply being a male, and therefore getting offended when some certain feminists rather sloppily suggest poorly thought out solutions for dealing with these aggressive males themselves, including adopting aggressive and violent solutions borrowed from their male oppressors. Follow me?
In other words, in solving the problem, some feminists are going to suggest wild and wrong-headed solutions that will ultimately get shot down by the better feminists. Don't take it personally. Dumb men do it too in their own suggestions for solving issues with women like, for instance, suggesting women put aspirins between their knees as a birth control method. You are going to get crazy on any side.
I think you need to dig a little deeper into feminist philosophy before you start attributing every wild pronouncement made by some of its members to feminism as a whole. Feminists do understand men need to live and exist on earth. (Just not as a segregated group with their own advantages and rules that don't recognized the existence of other members of their species.) However, there is a certain sub-group, personality-type of male that is perpetrating the majority of the injustices against women and indeed against males like yourself and many other enlightened men. So don't take feminist disgust personally. Try to find where it's coming from, apart from its more colorful and exaggerated pronouncements of some of its members.
The complaint that "men should be allowed to be men" is exactly the problem feminism is trying to address. Men should not be "men" first. That suggests there are certain behaviors men should be allowed to act out that are above their responsibility to be human. Men should be human first and foremost. Why? Because women are humans too and when you conform to being human, instead of just male, it allows inclusion and healthy interaction with all members and sub-groups of your species. if all you need to worry about is being "male", proper interaction with others of your species is not learned. When you advance the "men should be allowed to be men" argument, it is just a trigger for feminists to push back against it and rightly so.
The link below is to a video interview between Naomi Wolf and Harvey Mansfield, who tries to advance this "men should be allowed to be men" philosophy, unsuccessfully, if you ask me. Naomi just picks him apart, but note, not overtly aggressively. You might find it informative to the hopelessness of taking such a stance and then fine tune your position on Feminism to something more mutually acceptable and beneficial instead of one of conflict and pushing back.
I hope it helps.
(the interview starts 50 seconds in)
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With all due respect,
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