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reACTIONary

(5,768 posts)
23. Say what with a stright face?
Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:09 PM
Dec 2012

That nation states pursue the collective self interest of their people? That isn't a very controversial statement. I don't think that you would find much in history to to show otherwise, but if you know of some historical tomb that maintains otherwise, let me know what it is and I'll check it out.

You may mean that the interests that are pursued are selected by an elite, and represent a narrow focus on the elites' own interests. That may be more or less true under various forms of governance and circumstance. Almost all collective decision making involves a hierarchical process that favors some more than others to a greater or lessor extent. This does not mean that the decisions that are made are NOT in the interest of the entire people, even if they may be MORE in the interest of some. That's just the nature of a collective, hierarchical decision making processes. Oh well.

Peace, stability and containment of conflict in the middle east are in our collective self interest, and in the interests of other western industrial democracies. We may not be making the right decisions all the time, and some may make better decisions than others, but the goal is our collective self interest.

I believe that often, when we act in our own interest and the interests we share with other societies like ours, we often also benefit the wider interests of others, even, in a sense, of all mankind. Our actions in Libya were in the pursuit of our own interests - I believe they also benefited the Libyan people and more generally the people of the middle east. I'm glad we were able to help out and I'm glad Gaddafi is gone.

"lawmakers ought to be more concerned about finding out what went wrong" bemildred Nov 2012 #1
Not to mention Cheney... Oldfolkie Nov 2012 #2
Pleeez dont mention Cheney. nm rhett o rick Nov 2012 #4
John Kerry is whom the bird brained McCain BrainMann1 Nov 2012 #3
You don't think Kerry is the one fleabiscuit Nov 2012 #5
Senator Kerry is a good man. He would never resort to tactics like this to get a post. wisteria Nov 2012 #8
No, absolutely not. Fearless Nov 2012 #12
That's not the way to do it--I'd be very surprised if what you are saying is true. MADem Dec 2012 #26
Stupid reasoning. If Kerry isn't picked for SOS, there is a good possibility he could be SOD. wisteria Nov 2012 #7
Luger supposedly leads the short list for the DOD post, ahead of Kerry. MADem Dec 2012 #27
People should stop hating on Kerry. He hasn't done anything politicasista Dec 2012 #28
He's MY Senior Senator--I'm not "hating on him." MADem Dec 2012 #29
No you are ok. politicasista Dec 2012 #30
I think Kerry is the better person for the job democrattotheend Dec 2012 #15
I hope they blow off all their feet with high caliber bullshit and are forced to geckosfeet Nov 2012 #6
and the intelligence wasn't "flawed" in Bush admin--it was faked. Cheney pressured CIA to change yurbud Nov 2012 #9
Exactly. That whole WMD meme was stated deliberately and without qualification. SunSeeker Nov 2012 #10
I wish the term "WMD" would be retired it sounds like Rocky and Bullwinkle childishness yurbud Nov 2012 #11
"Rocky and Bullwinkle childishness" is a very good characterization of the sophistication of the Bill USA Dec 2012 #13
NBC is too specific and restricted to state actors... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #14
so every country with fertilizer and a commercial airport was WMD? yurbud Dec 2012 #16
Whats your point? These are weapons of mass destruction... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #17
because propaganda was enshrined in law doesn't make it any less embarrassing yurbud Dec 2012 #18
Specifically in the case of Syria... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #19
the end is not altruistic in any case yurbud Dec 2012 #20
Generally, the ends pursued by a nation state... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #21
you need to read more detailed histories or get out of Washington DC yurbud Dec 2012 #22
Say what with a stright face? reACTIONary Dec 2012 #23
so intervening in other countries to keep the minimum wage low, dump our crop surpluses so yurbud Dec 2012 #24
You and I are helped when our fellow citizens are helped... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #25
On Iraq, I was talking very specifically about provisions of the Hydrocarbon Law we tried to force yurbud Dec 2012 #31
Thanks for the clarification on Iraq... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #32
google "april glaspie," "saddam hussein," and "kuwait" Wikipedia has a good summary of the meeting yurbud Dec 2012 #33
I'm familiar with the conversation and quoted it in my previous response... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #34
I said, "He got an ambiguous answer on Kuwait" and a green light on Iran yurbud Dec 2012 #35
Reasonable Theory? Or do you mean... reACTIONary Dec 2012 #36
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