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Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
71. If I was Haitian, I'd go anywhere but Haiti.
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 05:31 PM
Jan 2012

I didn't say it's a hellhole. I'm just wondering why people aren't flocking there, nor are they flocking out.
they've defected. they use atheletes to promote the glory of the state Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #1
Don't worry, under Romney's plan they will go back to Cuba voluntarily. tridim Jan 2012 #2
They probably just got lost looking for some good poutine. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #3
"Good" is such a wonderfully flexible word! nt hack89 Jan 2012 #4
If they let their citizens work where ever they wished they would have no more workers. former9thward Jan 2012 #5
A major league clue... ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #6
Just because people christx30 Jan 2012 #7
Actually it's not a bad place TomClash Jan 2012 #10
no country is picture perfect in everyway n/t Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #12
I tried to leave the US, but was threatened with arrest when I started packing. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #15
By an LEO? ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #17
It is. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #18
Clearly a mistake TomClash Jan 2012 #20
I was there in November Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #26
Did you make any friends there? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #28
In a week? Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #31
Sure. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #38
I was in a group based in Havana, which cut down on the number of up close Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #40
They could at least log onto DU and share their experiences. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #41
You're being snide, because surely you know Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #43
Cubans....joining DU????? rayofreason Jan 2012 #134
People also fled Cuba when Batista was running it dflprincess Jan 2012 #25
The CIA reported years ago that most Cubans would choose to stay in Cuba. Judi Lynn Jan 2012 #29
Where the CIA cooked up that number god knows. former9thward Jan 2012 #46
Funny the entire team didn't defect. thousands of Cubans come here every year under nanabugg Jan 2012 #88
Cuban athletes that come here are guarded. former9thward Jan 2012 #89
Then they must be doing something wrong, chrisa Jan 2012 #129
Sure, why not let them go and . . . TomClash Jan 2012 #8
Freedom to choose is a good thing. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #9
Cubans are free to choose a lot of things TomClash Jan 2012 #11
With the exception of choosing their president. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #13
Because the People in the US always choose their President TomClash Jan 2012 #19
At least we are subtle enough to rotate them more often then every 50 years. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #21
All Humming the same Hymn TomClash Jan 2012 #22
Where do Cubans go on holiday? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #23
Only kings or dictators rule for 50 years. hack89 Jan 2012 #24
Yes and titular heads make all the difference TomClash Jan 2012 #36
You are trying a little too hard hack89 Jan 2012 #37
I'm not trying much at all TomClash Jan 2012 #39
Totalitarian Dictatorship = Bad Place PavePusher Jan 2012 #62
More like "knee jerk" TomClash Jan 2012 #63
Feel free to cite a dictatorship that enjoys the same or greater levels of freedom and liberty... PavePusher Jan 2012 #67
Strawman alert! Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #75
You are correct, my apology to all. PavePusher Jan 2012 #81
seems if they were allowed to play, they would send back some of their earnings Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #14
Isn't this Canada? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #16
Probbaly so homesick for that Cuban utopia, they rushed home. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #27
It appears you don't know people come and go from Cuba continually. You should research sometime. Judi Lynn Jan 2012 #30
So they can just pack a boat, say goodbye, and leave? Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #32
No, but the U.S. and Cuba have worked out an agreement for orderly immigration, Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #35
Why would a socialist paradise need to restrict the number of people who can leave? Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #42
It's the U.S. limiting the number who can come IN, not Cuba restricting the number who can leave Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #44
How many people emigrate to Cuba annually? Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #45
You're arguing like a right-winger, setting up strawman arguments Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #64
If I was Haitian, I'd go anywhere but Haiti. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #71
well, Haitians are free to do just that iverglas Jan 2012 #76
wrong, Cubans need a travel permit the "tarjeta blanca", not just for US Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #49
Americans used to be able to travel to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean w/o a passport Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #77
"When Cubans have the same freedom of movement that we do" iverglas Jan 2012 #48
the norm for most countries is a 90 day tourist stamp for US citizens Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #50
not sure how this answered my post iverglas Jan 2012 #53
Cubans would go whereever they could I suppose Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #55
Has it changed? bitchkitty Jan 2012 #84
Since 1999, all the European Union countries except Britain and Ireland Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #130
Sounds awesome! bitchkitty Jan 2012 #138
Is the US preventing another country from accepting you? Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #58
um, is Cuba preventing any country from accepting Cubans? iverglas Jan 2012 #60
You missed the point utterly. Dreamer Tatum Jan 2012 #72
no, you are making a point that isn't iverglas Jan 2012 #74
I wonder, iverglass, how many of the people who slam Cuba, have actually been there Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #79
I wandered afoul on one occasion ;) iverglas Jan 2012 #83
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #87
jeeezus christ iverglas Jan 2012 #93
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #95
I'll reply to this one while I still can iverglas Jan 2012 #96
The US can deny you a passport - ie prevent you from leaving the country. Matariki Jan 2012 #101
So? What does that have to do with your sufrommich Jan 2012 #131
10% of Cuba's population has left the island. joshcryer Jan 2012 #33
I grew up in contact with Latvian emigres--they were AFRAID to go back to Latvia Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #34
"letting their citizens work where ever they wished" iverglas Jan 2012 #47
So Cuba should not get in the way of those who get foreign work visas hack89 Jan 2012 #51
so .............................. iverglas Jan 2012 #52
What's wrong with selling your talents for a better life? hack89 Jan 2012 #54
who said there was anything wrong with it? iverglas Jan 2012 #56
The only thing I need to know about Cuba is that it is a one party police state hack89 Jan 2012 #57
I'd say the question is actually ... iverglas Jan 2012 #59
Nothing justifies political repression hack89 Jan 2012 #61
Cuba is not a good place to be rich, but a friend of mine who has visited and even Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #65
Why can't they be a true social democracy like Sweden? Sweden is not massacring entire villages. hack89 Jan 2012 #66
Sweden and the other social democracies STARTED with a higher standard of living Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #68
So Cuba must always be a one party police state? Really? nt hack89 Jan 2012 #69
so Cubans aren't ready for a Swedish type social democracy then?? Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #70
When the majority of Cubans want a change, there will be a change Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #73
Before I went there dipsydoodle Jan 2012 #80
Do you know what people in our group noticed? Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #82
well, when and how will we know when the Cubans want change? Castro already annointed Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #90
Wouldn't regular free multi-party elections be the best way to gauge when they want a change? hack89 Jan 2012 #118
Why can't the US be a true social democracy like Sweden? iverglas Jan 2012 #78
I agree - both America and Cuba should be more like Sweden. hack89 Jan 2012 #85
so you're using the same tired old tactics here iverglas Jan 2012 #86
So if liberty must be sacrificed for security hack89 Jan 2012 #94
I didn't say that it precluded social democracy, only that Scandinavia had advantages in this Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #91
What precludes them from plain old democracy? nt hack89 Jan 2012 #92
here's the real question iverglas Jan 2012 #98
So they have a one party "democracy" with a single leader for 50 years? hack89 Jan 2012 #103
. iverglas Jan 2012 #106
Do you deny they are a one party state? hack89 Jan 2012 #116
It is a wonder to see DUers all bent out of shape Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #128
I condemn all police states, "allies" or not. They are anathema to fundamental human rights. hack89 Jan 2012 #137
Well, some counties might pass resolutions, Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #139
But as private citizens we can condemn police states such as Cuba, right? hack89 Jan 2012 #141
Why bother "condemning" it? Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #142
How often does the Episcopal Diocese of Minnesota visit political prisoners? hack89 Jan 2012 #143
How often do visitors to the U.S. visit political prisoners in the U.S. ? Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #146
I would think a church group would be actively supporting Christian values where ever they went hack89 Jan 2012 #147
So political repression is OK as long as it is "mild"? What do you think OWS thinks about that idea? hack89 Jan 2012 #144
Do the Cuban people think they are not developed enough for true democracy? hack89 Jan 2012 #105
It's not up to me Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #145
How do they articulate their choice to be free? Through free elections? Oh wait ... hack89 Jan 2012 #148
Why can't the USA be a democracy? Many reasons. roody Jan 2012 #100
Only kings and dictators rule for 50 years. hack89 Jan 2012 #104
only hacks behave like this iverglas Jan 2012 #109
So the Cuban ruling class is simply more honest? hack89 Jan 2012 #117
well, somebody is "more honest" iverglas Jan 2012 #120
So is the Cuban ruling class any different from ours? hack89 Jan 2012 #121
I wasn't talking about the Cuban anything iverglas Jan 2012 #122
I know - you always revert to personal attacks eventually. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #123
Cuban's aren't even free to go anywhere they wish *within Cuba*. joshcryer Jan 2012 #97
Please post any link you have to information on your claim Judi Lynn Jan 2012 #99
Decree 217? joshcryer Jan 2012 #102
HRW ? dipsydoodle Jan 2012 #107
one would say "unbelievable", but ... iverglas Jan 2012 #108
back to the OP, those two women apparently aren't impressed by Cuba's "progress" Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #111
your "understanding" ... iverglas Jan 2012 #112
first things first, so did the government assign people jobs or not??? Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #113
"and to reiterate" iverglas Jan 2012 #119
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #124
yes, isn't capitalism wonderful? iverglas Jan 2012 #125
They aren't coming from Western Europe so much anymore Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #132
there is no particular need for Western europeans Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #133
I don't know where you're getting "resentful" Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #135
people go to live in developing countries all the time. many expats in latin america Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #136
Yes, but when I was considering expatriating during the Bush administration Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #140
Decree 217 is not just used to limit it to Havana. It's arbitrarily implemented. joshcryer Jan 2012 #114
good post. one note, the ID card (cedula) is widespread throughout latin america Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #115
yes, isn't capitalism wonderful? iverglas Jan 2012 #126
Cuba has always been capitalist. joshcryer Jan 2012 #127
No Occupy Havana I guess n/t Bacchus4.0 Jan 2012 #110
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