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PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
37. I don't think you actually know how "body armor" works.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:59 AM
Dec 2012

It doesn't make you impervious to all effects of gunshots. While it may stop most pistol bullets, it still feels like getting whacked with a bat. Most folks, hit in the torso, will still want to lie down for a while. And it doesn't stop rifle bullets for much, unless backed up with heavy metal or ceramic plates. And those cover only very limited areas.

And this does not even consider the truth that more bullets flying means more people get hit in most cases.

If you look up the actual stats, Citizens shooting in self-defense hit innocent people far less often than police. I'll try to find the study that supports this, I seem to have misplaced the link for it. (Found it, a Newsweek column that's hard to find: http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.will. Haven't found a direct link. Yes, it's also old data, but I haven't seen anything to contradict or indicate any change.) Even if it went the way you imply, I fail to see how, for instance, 2 shot by a criminal and 1 or 2 accidently shot by a defender is worse than 20 dead children by a criminal. That math doesn't work.

Civilians cannot be trained to the level of police officers and in particular, they cannot possibly keep up that training as police officers do on a continual basis.

While your faith in police training is admirable, it is rather misplaced. Police in general do not receive the level of firearms training most Citizens think they do. Nor do they "keep (it) up" particularly well. (See the Rand study on NYPD training: http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG717.html . This is, sadly, not atypical.) As for your opinion on "civilians" (police are very much civilians, FTR), they most certainly can be trained, and frequently well past the level of police. One need merely look at the competitive shooting sports and count the numbers of police vs. Citizens at those events, and the numbers of winners. Overwhelmingly non-police....

Also, defensive options in a classroom are very limited. There are only a few options to chose from, and a correspondingly reduced training demand. A 3-5 days of annual training, with one or two refresher days per year would be more than sufficient.

Then they should allow concealed weapons in the MO legislature too jpak Dec 2012 #1
They already allow guns in the legislature Seedersandleechers Dec 2012 #2
Include courtrooms, city hall, and the mayors office... Blue Idaho Dec 2012 #11
wow... ceeRoy Dec 2012 #29
Let's legislate for open-carry in maternity wards and see what happens. Aristus Dec 2012 #3
missouri--another "NO GO" state triplepoint Dec 2012 #4
this is sheer insanity Skittles Dec 2012 #5
the inner city school where I teach has guards at the door and a metal detector wordpix Dec 2012 #6
I think the idea is, you're supposed to be wearing the gun. Quantess Dec 2012 #8
and ceeRoy Dec 2012 #30
Do the teachers get a raise for passing the gun tests? JoePhilly Dec 2012 #7
Since the Republicans are the party of less government and lower taxes Mike Daniels Dec 2012 #23
the bad guys will move somewhere else .nt Blackhawk44 Dec 2012 #9
I've asked these questions before, but never gotten direct answers: PavePusher Dec 2012 #10
The reason why no one wants to respond to such a question is because it is so obvious Harmony Blue Dec 2012 #12
It would appear you don't know anything about defensive use of firearms. PavePusher Dec 2012 #15
most handguns don't have safeties Blackhawk44 Dec 2012 #17
It makes things worse both during an attack, and when there isn't one DVDGuy Dec 2012 #20
Interesting hypotheticals. Do you have any evidence that supports any of them? PavePusher Dec 2012 #21
as opposed to just being fish in a barrel currently n/t Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #25
I am with you, its doubtful it could have been worse. Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #24
Nothing good is going to come... ReRe Dec 2012 #13
Posts on facebook are showing teachers with guns in Israel ragemage Dec 2012 #14
I don't know about this one...I've hung around teachers before. Better add the stimulation that they jonesgirl Dec 2012 #16
This teacher would like you to explain what you mean by that proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #36
I've seen and heard too many teachers talk about how stressful kids are today, and how hard it is to jonesgirl Dec 2012 #42
That is not even worthy of a response. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #43
So what about this then........ socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #47
We can't stop the kids from "snapping" with guns. Beartracks Dec 2012 #18
Complications Lamonte Dec 2012 #19
This is actually quite easy to train for, for both LEO's and Citizens. PavePusher Dec 2012 #22
If the shooter has body armor on it can change the dynamic a lot. yellowcanine Dec 2012 #26
I don't think you actually know how "body armor" works. PavePusher Dec 2012 #37
I have been a classroom teacher. It is a horrendously bad idea. yellowcanine Dec 2012 #38
You keep saying that.... PavePusher Dec 2012 #39
I have explained it. You just don't accept the explanation because of your blind spot on guns. yellowcanine Dec 2012 #40
Several adults in the Newtown school were quite capable of fighting back, providing distractions... PavePusher Dec 2012 #41
I totally agree. Another reason... YvonneCa Dec 2012 #44
Leading the race to the bottom!!! RKP5637 Dec 2012 #27
This illustrates how truly fucked up the united states has become. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2012 #28
It makes me want to cry...this country is dying movonne Dec 2012 #31
Catholic schools included? Odd Won Out Dec 2012 #32
Great Answer Blue.Stem Dec 2012 #33
Welcome to DU and I hope you enjoy the site. hrmjustin Dec 2012 #34
Harry Truman grew up in Lamar. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #35
Opens up a whole new possibility for potential shooters. jackbenimble Dec 2012 #45
Wouldn't have deterred Lanza. He came prepared with body armor. TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #46
I'll believe guns add a safety factor Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #48
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