Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
19. The problem is range and penetration
Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:43 PM
Nov 2012

Assuming the same range. a sub-sonic round has to be heavier to do the same damage as a faster round.

Another problem is a sub sonic round must have a higher "arc" in its trajectory compared to a faster round , which requires more precise estimation of range (If range is wrong, greater chance that the round will go over or under the target).

One problem with heavier rounds, is they take more powder to to pushed out of the barrel. . Thus you have to not only silence the round, you have to silence the propellant. Now, Silencers have done this, but silencers are noted for not lasting long, mostly due to water build up (the technical difference between silencers and your car muffler is the size, mufflers last a long time for they are silencing much lower exhaust gas speeds BUT tend to be 100-1000 times larger then most silencers).

The "Silent" weapon of choice, when people wanted to target something outside of pistol range (about 20-50 feet) are the following, for it fires a very heavy projectile over a high arc, but with a propulsion system that stays below sonic speeds, It is reusable and thus does not have the problem of filling up with water like a conventional silencer:



Another silent weapon, with more power (and thus greater weight AND greater ability to penetrate Armor), but slower rate of re-loading:

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/629497/629497,1281976555,3/stock-photo-medieval-girl-shoots-a-crossbow-59143561.jpg

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/629497/629497,1281976555,3/stock-photo-medieval-girl-shoots-a-crossbow-59143561.jpg

The British issued bows during WWII to some units, through except for one report in 1940, none seems to have actually been used in combat:

http://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured-article/glorious-bastard-mad-jack-churchill-became-the-only-man-during-wwii-to-kill-an-enemy-soldier-with-an-arrow-fired-from-a-longbow.html

Please note, most unconventional operations would NOT mention how someone was "eliminated" but combat reports would. I have seen photos of British Troops, all with rifles then one with a Longbow. This may just have been a propaganda photo, but it exists and longbows were obtained and at least one was used (I have also saw a cover of Life Magazine of 1944, of US Service men marching in formation, all with M1903 Springfields. I suspect that was an attempt to fool the Germans that most US Troops still had Springfields instead of the M1 Rifle. You have to be careful when you review photos published in war time, for fooling someone may be part of the reason for the photo).

In Vietnam, silenced pistols and sub-machine guns were used, but the US also had its Hmong allies use their cross bows when silence was wanted. Again, in open combat the Hmong preferred modern weapons, but I have heard of reports where the Hmong used Crossbows to take out men on guard duty for any Viet Cong or North Vietnamese group they were attacking.

Just pointing out, such weapons have a place even today and fulfills the "requirement" of a silenced weapon.

Easier to dodge. truthisfreedom Nov 2012 #1
Not necessarily. It's only at certain distances which you can sakabatou Nov 2012 #5
Dodge this jberryhill Nov 2012 #13
You aren't dodging a bullet moving fast enough to wound, full stop. (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2012 #23
Less effective against body armor. tclambert Nov 2012 #2
most of our enemies don't wear body armor anyway WooWooWoo Nov 2012 #8
They would mostly make head shots. oldbanjo Nov 2012 #10
5.56mm, 7.62mm and.338 caliber are all smaller than 9mm - diameter wise anyway. geckosfeet Nov 2012 #3
556,762 and 338 are assault rifle rounds. 9mm sub machine gun and pistol rounds pasto76 Nov 2012 #9
These calibers have a velocity oldbanjo Nov 2012 #11
It"s too bad we couldn't spend this money on another silent killer Earth_First Nov 2012 #4
+1 Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #22
.300 Whisper and .300 AAC Blackout krispos42 Nov 2012 #6
It would seem simpler to just re-issue the old .45ACP 1911s JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2012 #7
Something like a wadcutter with a depleted uranium spike in the center should work FarCenter Nov 2012 #14
Not sure I'd want to carry seven pieces of uranium JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2012 #15
Uranium is an alpha particle emitter, so inside a lead jacket it would be safe. FarCenter Nov 2012 #17
Subsonic ammo has been readily available for many years for these calibers NickB79 Nov 2012 #12
That was my thought, as well DollarBillHines Nov 2012 #26
Making war more antiseptic. earthside Nov 2012 #16
Feel free to get up-close and personal. PavePusher Nov 2012 #28
Wrong. The people making complaints like that are people who despise war, and the misery apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #30
Im confused Liberaltalker Nov 2012 #18
Silencers only work on the sound of the POWDER that propels the bullet, not the bullet happyslug Nov 2012 #20
Awesome post! sofa king Nov 2012 #21
Silencers break down quickly too, don't they? (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2012 #24
Depends on the type. Xithras Nov 2012 #25
The problem is range and penetration happyslug Nov 2012 #19
"for...police forces and the Department of Homeland Security." woo me with science Nov 2012 #27
I'm not an apologist and hate Third Way authoritarians, but I'll try to answer that question. ieoeja Nov 2012 #29
Locking, sorry, this is a feature story about something that might happen in the future. Rhiannon12866 Nov 2012 #31
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»US military seeks to deve...»Reply #19