Reply #104

In the discussion thread: When many employers stop offering health insurance to their employees... [View all]

Sun Jul 1, 2012, 12:03 PM

104. Increasing penalties, increasing taxes, increasing premiums and increasing bankruptcies

Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 12:04 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

Ever increasing shittiness of care and outcoomes for the majority will be the legacy of Obamacare - before it's eventually ripped out by the roots because of popular outrage.

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124 replies	Author	Time	Post
When many employers stop offering health insurance to their employees... [View all]	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	OP
"professional" companies won't change anything - tech, engineering, etc.	banned from Kos	Jun 2012	#1
They don't offer good (Wal-Mart) or any (McDonald's) coverage now.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#3
But will they be required to pony up that $3000 penalty?	banned from Kos	Jun 2012	#12
$3000 per is still cheaper than $6000-$10000 per n/t	SickOfTheOnePct	Jun 2012	#19
Yes, and 0 (current penalty) is cheaper than $3000.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#22
They're not paying 0. They're paying thousands for an employee's policy right now nt	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#25
The penalty right now is zero.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#33
You are confusing "penalty". Corporations are definitely paying right now.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#39
YOU are confusing "penalty."	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#56
You've clearly missed...	Chan790	Jun 2012	#68
It seems like having a per-person penalty	Art_from_Ark	Jul 2012	#97
If they pay the cost now when there is no penalty for dropping it, then	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#111
What would be the incentive if everybody has insurance?	Bandit	Jun 2012	#71
The more pressure that builds, from every front, to enact single payer, the better	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#78
Everybody won't have insurance.	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#110
Employers who don't offer insurance are paying zero.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#35
More and more companies are dropping coverage. That's a fact.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#42
More and more companies were dropping coverage BEFORE the ACA. That's a fact.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#52
The penalty will not cause most companies to drop coverage.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#21
I thought McD's had a waiver .... not sure about walmart ....nt	littlewolf	Jun 2012	#36
My point is that not many companies that provide coverage now will drop it.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#57
Even the best tech companies like Bell Labs, IBM etc. have dropped pension plans	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#5
Nothing like a 16% 'real' unemployment rate to induce employees to	coalition_unwilling	Jul 2012	#101
you mean with all those Wal-Mart employees	zbdent	Jun 2012	#55
Absolutely FALSE. "Contract" work is already the norm in several professional fields.	Romulox	Jun 2012	#80
Yep.	xmas74	Jul 2012	#100
I disagree.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#2
Exactly	Iggy	Jun 2012	#8
I'm no "reich winger" newbie, and I'm advocating FOR a path to single payer. nt	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#14
I'm advocating for single payer too.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#16
I didn't say "all" employers but some most certainly will	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#47
See? They are dropping it REGARDLESS of the penalty.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#48
Its not an all or nothing thing. I'm not arguing that it is.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#50
You are though.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#53
I'm not. Its in my very first sentence that I qualify it - I never said "all"	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#63
You said enough would drop it to collapse the employer-provided insurance system.	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#119
So Am I, and the ACA	Iggy	Jun 2012	#60
Then you don't know the facts of history, do you? Or mathematics?	Zalatix	Jun 2012	#90
WHAT A LOAD	Iggy	Jun 2012	#91
It will be cheaper to pay the penalty.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#9
Yes, and right now it is cheaper to offer nothing.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#15
This message was self-deleted by its author	Chan790	Jun 2012	#70
How is a penalty cheaper than 0? nt	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#18
They're not paying 0. They're paying thousands for an employee's policy	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#23
Yes, they currently pay more for insurance, and they could drop it without a penalty.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#32
Ok, the disconnect in this thread is simple.	TheKentuckian	Jun 2012	#37
They are dropping coverage - more and more companies are doing just that.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#43
Because some have already said they will.	Chan790	Jun 2012	#73
Again, this is coming from	Iggy	Jun 2012	#92
Why are you so invested in maintaining the status quo? Healthcare tied to employment is so great?	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#93
Changing the Subject	Iggy	Jul 2012	#96
I'm not changing the subject and I've never said "all" companies. Please try to read for accuracy nt	riderinthestorm	Jul 2012	#102
If you dropped it today, you'd save $3500. If you dropped it after 2014, you'll save $500.	lumberjack_jeff	Jun 2012	#76
Personally? We can't drop it since my husband has Stage IV, Grade IV lymphoma	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#83
If your experience is the exception rather than the rule	lumberjack_jeff	Jun 2012	#84
They are dropping it. More and more. Its happening as we speak	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#86
Why would they be offering coverage now?	TheKentuckian	Jun 2012	#95
A man on the local news said he would probably go to	Autumn	Jun 2012	#38
You could cut your employees compensation by $3500 without ramifications? n/t	lumberjack_jeff	Jun 2012	#74
I dunno Jeff, do you think employers haven't already been doing that?	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#85
I know they do and are.	lumberjack_jeff	Jun 2012	#87
McDonalds and 29 other big companies threatened to do just that.	Zalatix	Jul 2012	#120
McDonald's doesn't offer real health coverage.	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#121
Southwest has been mulling dropping coverage for its employees.	Zalatix	Jul 2012	#122
Sure. I think everyone here agrees with that point.	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#123
We will simply increase the penalty	Motown_Johnny	Jun 2012	#4
Remember its been defined now as a "tax" - raising "taxes" will be verrrry difficult imho. nt	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#7
(R)s love raising taxes on the poor, this will be easy	Motown_Johnny	Jun 2012	#72
Increasing penalties, increasing taxes, increasing premiums and increasing bankruptcies	kenny blankenship	Jul 2012	#104
Single payer should clearly be the ultimate goal	lolly	Jun 2012	#6
It will be cheaper to pay the penalty. nt	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#10
Because it's much cheaper to not offer it at all	SickOfTheOnePct	Jun 2012	#13
+1 nt	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#24
It would be nice if insurance were separated from employment...	PoliticAverse	Jun 2012	#11
"insurers will be mandated to give it to them"	Ruby the Liberal	Jun 2012	#17
Oh, I completely agree. 110% agree but the bean counters will win on this I predict	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#28
Not exactly.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#29
Actually, the law does provide for enrollment windows.	Ruby the Liberal	Jun 2012	#40
Virtually all insurance will be sold inside the exchanges if not-employer sponsored.	OrwellwasRight	Jun 2012	#54
Great link!	Ruby the Liberal	Jun 2012	#65
Definitely --	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#112
I don't trust them.	Ruby the Liberal	Jul 2012	#113
Actually Kaiser Family Foundation	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#114
Sorry - wasn't talking about KFF	Ruby the Liberal	Jul 2012	#115
Oh, I agree 100%	OrwellwasRight	Jul 2012	#118
Only when the US Chamber of Commerce is destroyed.	LiberalFighter	Jun 2012	#20
These same fools were ALL up in arms yesterday	Ruby the Liberal	Jun 2012	#41
Some of us have that objective.	Chan790	Jun 2012	#81
single pay is the only way to fix this broken system	RainDog	Jun 2012	#26
I think you are correct n/t	DeeJay	Jun 2012	#27
I don't see why having to pay a penalty would have any effect on employr offering ins. if he's	Honeycombe8	Jun 2012	#30
Oh I think they'll collude. I have no doubt of that. nt	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#44
I think the economics with eventually force a two tier heath insurance system	LARED	Jun 2012	#31
I agree and its what many, many DUers feared in the HCR negotiation phases.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#45
I agree	SickOfTheOnePct	Jun 2012	#51
I believe Australia does this now.	Ruby the Liberal	Jun 2012	#66
If you have 50 or fewer employees, your employee health is tax deductible...	rustydog	Jun 2012	#34
I am a small business owner and operator. I live this daily.	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#46
Currently health insurance is a big plus in attracting and retaining employees.	FarCenter	Jun 2012	#49
Sen Obama at 2009 SEIU conference	ChazII	Jun 2012	#58
Interesting thing happened today	mzteris	Jun 2012	#59
I think so as well	TNLib	Jun 2012	#61
It already is even cheaper not to pay for insurance	quaker bill	Jun 2012	#62
I agree with most of your post except...	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#64
No reason to drop coverage in the law	quaker bill	Jun 2012	#69
I'd like to believe you can find any kind of coverage for $4k but if there is, I don't know it	riderinthestorm	Jun 2012	#75
The group policy at my office	quaker bill	Jul 2012	#98
What insurance company and what are the specifics? nt	riderinthestorm	Jul 2012	#103
BCBS	quaker bill	Jul 2012	#116
I'd wager the majority of private American employers no longer provide health insurance. So what's	Romulox	Jun 2012	#79
Then they have nothing to drop	quaker bill	Jun 2012	#88
Employers do provide the benefit to save money.	lumberjack_jeff	Jun 2012	#82
And they won't stop because of a tax they don't have to pay.	quaker bill	Jun 2012	#89
I disagree - There was no penalty before.	NutmegYankee	Jun 2012	#67
I agree with all of your post, save the part about Single Payer. Single Payer is impossible, now.	Romulox	Jun 2012	#77
This makes absolutely no sense...If an employer is paying for insurance or the gateway for employees	rustydog	Jun 2012	#94
"They will begin to wonder why health insurance was ever coupled with employment"	4th law of robotics	Jul 2012	#99
IMO employer offered health insurance will be a thing of the past. To my knowledge	RKP5637	Jul 2012	#105
Actually, it was - the WWII post wage freezes	Ruby the Liberal	Jul 2012	#107
Thanks for adding this!!!	RKP5637	Jul 2012	#109
Do you think many executives & their favorites get FREE hc policies in the status quo, offered by	patrice	Jul 2012	#106
I don't have the answer to that. I'm not sure anyone does	riderinthestorm	Jul 2012	#108
Here in MA many will not hire fulltime anymore	Marrah_G	Jul 2012	#117
health insurance benefits?	lauraperkins	Jul 2012	#124

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