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Ms. Toad

(34,066 posts)
20. Allocation is done on a completely neutral basis
Tue Jun 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
Jun 2012

Almost entirely according to the MELD score (lab number + weighted for current dialysis patients) with some weighting for regional location.

Unfortunately, there are no scientifically valid means of determining out of all the people eligible based on their MELD score, which ones will be able to care for the organ after donation. That is the reason less objective - but closely related - criteria is used to sort that out just to get in the door to be on the list (or remove you from the list).

A patient who is caring for a liver post transplant cannot, ever, count on others to tend for her care. She will always have to be careful about drug interactions, making sure every physician knows what medications she is taking, and so on. Even before transplant, for my daughter, that means when her gynecologist prescribes flagyl for a yeast infection she cannot rely on her gynecologist's assessment about whether flagyl is safe, she must also consult her hepatologist to make sure he approves. And she is not even listed yet.

The patient is the person in connection with all pieces of the system, who has access to all of the information. She is the one responsible for communication and she needs to demonstrate that she can make sure, for example, that any future oncologist who may - or may not be part of the same system - knows all of the relevant medical information. Including restrictions of any separate medical treatment like a transplant.

If the patient cannot understand and communicate clearly with every doctor caring for her and follow the rules of the transplant program in advance, when she is near death and she more tangibly understands her life depends on it, it is less likely that she will be able or committed to do so when life is once again good. That is just reality, and unfortunately there is no objective or scientific way to sort that out - even though the ability to communicate among physicians and to follow the rules of the transplant program are not direct indicators of post transplant care, but they are very closely related and are about the best that is available.

As for medical marijuana - that is where the patient needs to advocate for a personal exception. By doing that, she demonstrates her ability to be medically compliant - buy communicating her needs clearly, by working with the system to design a plan suited for her needs, and by ultimately following her doctor's orders (even if that means foregoing medical marijuana if she is unable to obtain an exception).

My daughter has a liver disease that is completely unrelated to alcohol - and is patchy (meaning she has healthy portions of her liver intermingled with unhealthy - and the healthy portions are no more susceptible to injury by alcohol than any normal liver would be. Her transplant physician has told her, for now, that she shouldn't drink alcohol - but that realistically she is in college and his expectation is only that she will drink it sparingly. About half of the physicians treating this disease permit a few alcoholic drinks a week. Regardless of his current position, that will change once she is listed. At that point, she will have to comply with rules even though they may be medically inappropriate for her as part of demonstrating that she ought to be eligible to receive one of the organs which are in limited supply.

For the record, she doesn't drink. At all. I'm just sharing that as an example of other similar restrictions that have nothing to do with the legal or illegal status of the material being consumed, or the medical impact of using it, but which would bounce her off the list if she violated the rules.

It is always very helpful when my daughter's doctors communicate well with each other - particularly those in the same medical system - but the reality is that rarely happens and ultimately we are responsible for making sure there is no mix-up, just as she will be post transplant.

I am far more concerned about economic disparity in becoming eligible for the list than I am about disqualification based on things under the recipient's control. Many individuals cannot demonstrate that they have the economic means to care for the organ post transplant (anti-rejection drugs are not cheap), and are ineligible for that reason - and that seems to me much more unfair.

But they have all taken the hypocritical oath..er.. pipoman Jun 2012 #1
wtf? ryan_cats Jun 2012 #60
Shameful. n/t DLevine Jun 2012 #2
She should change her name ... GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #3
... SammyWinstonJack Jun 2012 #53
Savage and sick nt MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #4
She knew the rules HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #5
Your hearts as big as all of space JackInGreen Jun 2012 #6
Please HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #11
Let me see. sulphurdunn Jun 2012 #7
At some point she must've signed a contract. Robb Jun 2012 #9
MMJ prescribed by a doctor is no more substance abuse than hydrocodone prescribed by a doctor nashville_brook Jun 2012 #46
Yes, exactly HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #10
Did you read the link? The description of the other patient's experience is more clear. Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #12
Well, that's obviously an area they're going to have to work out HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #13
And it's good to bring these arbitrary rules into the daylight. Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #15
I agree with that, it's hard to argue that marijuana is worse than chemo drugs HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #25
Unless you are a transplant physician, or are otherwise qualified Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #28
Believe me, I agree with you HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #44
LOL! Welcome to DU Hot Rod! nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #45
. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #50
Without debating the use of medical marijuana Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #14
I understand that transplant teams work hard at limiting the donors to the most compliant Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #17
Allocation is done on a completely neutral basis Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #20
Great post. I would second your concerns about the finances riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #31
That is actually very low for savings - Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #36
Perhaps I can answer some of this.... riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #21
Thanks for the addition Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #24
There are major inaccuracies in the article Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #23
+1. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #26
Thanks Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #40
I have a vested interest in getting good information out there Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #41
Well said. nt MightyOkie Jun 2012 #16
Whats chronic alcoholism got to do with POT ? nm n/t clang1 Jun 2012 #64
These people SUPPORT the War on Drugs. All these cutesy excuses are made up after-the-fact. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #96
medical marijuana is not drug abuse.... spanone Jun 2012 #8
I'm glad you approve of a system that pretends medical marijuana is an excuse to murder people. phleshdef Jun 2012 #27
+10000000000 nashville_brook Jun 2012 #47
Disgusting. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #29
My sister just got a kidney/liver double transplant in February. As the major member of her family riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #18
Could the hospital face a penalty if they went ahead with the transplant? Freddie Stubbs Jun 2012 #19
Yes. The national governing agencies that regulate organ donation could create problems riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #22
LOL. There's a perfectly *rational* explanation for all of this, people. She *signed a contract*! Romulox Jun 2012 #30
How about ingesting smoke on a regular basis weakens your imimune system? randome Jun 2012 #32
SCIENCE, randome--not your musings... nt Romulox Jun 2012 #37
MMJ is edible, and vapable. Smoking not required. nashville_brook Jun 2012 #48
Not sure why that's vomit inducing. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #33
Right--all of this is -incidental- to your previous support of the Drug War. Romulox Jun 2012 #38
I don't support the Drug War, not in any way shape or form. Never have, never will. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #42
Right. All that business about your confusion regarding Vicodin's "similarity" to pot? Romulox Jun 2012 #52
It was an analogy, nothing more. Your blatant lying about my positions is duly noted. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #55
"Analogy" isn't a fancy way of saying "false". What you said was objectively *false*. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #57
Demonstrably patently untrue. I absolutely have never said pot is addictive. Ever. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #59
You use the word "analogy" like it means "mulligan". You were wrong, and contrive excuses instead Romulox Jun 2012 #63
LOL! Kick! riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #66
Yes. Kicking the story of letting this woman die somehow helps you... Romulox Jun 2012 #68
She's been on the list for 6 years, on dialysis for 5 years. I'm pretty sure she's not in danger riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #70
The "expert" rears her head again! But this time, she's serving a heaping dose of "compassion". nt Romulox Jun 2012 #71
Its in the OP, you too can be as much of an expert on this woman's case as me. Just read it. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #74
Disgusting. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #79
You have to be listed in order to receive an organ to transplant. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #35
i have a conflict with the local very popular childrens hospital--they have lots of fund raisers in dembotoz Jun 2012 #34
I'm seriously considering withdrawing my donor status, due to the disgusting abuses of the system... Romulox Jun 2012 #39
Please don't Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #43
David Crosby, Larry Hagman, Mickey Mantle, Dick Cheney. Also granted organs based on an "objective" Romulox Jun 2012 #54
You are propagating dangerous and destructive myths. Please. Just stop. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #56
LOL. The corruption in the system isn't the problem--it's *TALKING ABOUT IT* that's dangerous. Romulox Jun 2012 #58
Oh please talk about it all you want so we can continue to correct you. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #61
You *just* claimed ignorance of the particulars of these cases, and then demanded I "stop". Romulox Jun 2012 #62
I've never put myself out there as an expert. Just someone with first hand experience riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #67
Then why even respond when you assert *complete ignorance* of these abuses??? Romulox Jun 2012 #69
I said I didn't have the "exact particulars" of their cases (not ignorance). Neither do you. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #72
You could've googled each one of these cases 10 times over, if you were looking for facts. Romulox Jun 2012 #73
Innocuous items like candy are on the prohibited substances list for potential transplant patients riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #75
Right. There is a "perfect" explanation for letting this woman die. It's all "by the book". nt Romulox Jun 2012 #76
It IS all by the book. Exactly the point. Exactly. And she doesn't HAVE to die if she'd follow riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #81
Once again, both disgusting and devoid of reason. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #97
Follow the transplant team's orders and stay on the transplant list. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #99
And you still have failed to speak to organ transplant abuse, which is what this subthread is about. Romulox Jun 2012 #77
I have. Clearly you aren't paying attention. Good luck with that. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #82
So...Dick Cheney COULDN'T have received that heart transplant, eh? Your argument is with reality. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #84
I don't know the exact particulars of Dick Cheney's medical record. Neither do you. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #88
No. But YOU are the only one claiming that abuse doesn't exist. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #95
Actually I'm not alone on this. There are others right on this very thread riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #98
it most certainly is. And the appeals to emotion have little to do with that set criteria LanternWaste Jun 2012 #89
. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #90
To answer that question absolutely, Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #93
If you were honest, you would concede abuse. nt Romulox Jun 2012 #94
I am honest. Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #100
clearly a political killing. nashville_brook Jun 2012 #49
Kicking and recommending. Robb Jun 2012 #51
Heh if I ever donated an organ clang1 Jun 2012 #65
You'd have no control over that. riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #80
But it is medical MJ...doesn't that put her in a class Rex Jun 2012 #78
No MJ at all when you're on a transplant list. Even eating certain candy will get you chucked off riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #83
Wow, so have they done extensive studies on MJ and found Rex Jun 2012 #85
I didn't make the protocols for the transplant list. Feel free to email UNOS for that. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #86
Didn't say you did, just made the comment. Rex Jun 2012 #87
Sorry, this subject is very near to me right now riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #91
I hope your sister recovers and lives a long life! Rex Jun 2012 #92
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