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malaise

(268,693 posts)
33. that so-called English 'gentleman' Thomas Carlyle wanted us to starve as welll -
Sun Jun 17, 2012, 03:22 PM
Jun 2012

but in the tropics pumpkins were plentiful and he was disgusted. Check the title of his famous paper.
http://www.thephora.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-6572.html
<snip>

Sunk in deep froth oceans of “Benevolence,” “Fraternity,” “Emancipa- tion-principle,” “Christian Philanthropy,” and other amiable-looking, but most baseless, and in the end baleful and all-bewildering jargon, sad pro- duct of a sceptical eighteenth century, and of poor human hearts left destitute of any earnest guidance, and dis- believing that there ever was any, Christian or Heathen, and reduced to believe in rose-pink Sentimentalism alone, and to cultivate the same under its Christian, Antichristian, Broad- brimmed, Brutus-braded, and other forms, has not the human species gone strange roads during that period? And poor Exeter Hall, cultivating the Broad-brimmed form of Christian Sentimentalisin, and long talking and bleating and braying in that strain, has it not worked out results? Our West Indian legislatings, with their spoutings, anti-spoutings, and interminable jangle and babble; our twenty millions down on the nail for blacks of our own; thirty gradual millions [p.241] more, and many brave British lives to boot, in watching blacks of other people's; and now at last our ruined sugar-estates, differential sugar-duties, “immigration loan,” and beautiful blacks sitting there up to the ears in pumpkins, and doleful whites sitting here without potatoes to eat: never till now, I think, did the sun look down on such a jumble of human nonsenses. God grant that the measure may now at last be full! But no, it is not yet full; we have a long way to travel back, and terrible flounderings to make, and in fact an immense load of nonsense to dislodge from our poor heads, and manifold cobwebs to rend from our poor eyes, before we get into the road again, and can begin to act as serious men that have work to do in this universe, and no longer as windy sentimentalists that merely have speeches to deliver and despatches to write. O, Heaven, in West Indian matters, and in all manner of matters, it is so with us: the more is the sorrow!

The West Indies, it appears, are short of labor, as indeed is very conceivable in those circumstances. Where a black man, by working about half an hour a day (such is the calculation), can supply himself, by aid of sun and soil, with as much pumpkin as will suffice, he is likely to be a little stiff to raise into hard work! Supply and demand, which science says should be brought to bear on him, have an uphill task of it with such a man. Strong sun supplies itself gratis, rich soil in those unpeopled, or half-peopled regions almost gratis; these are his “supply,” and half an hour a day, directed upon these, will produce pumpkin, which is his “demand.” The fortunate black man, very swiftly does he settle his account with supply and demand ; not so swiftly the less fortunate white man of those tropical localities. A bad case his, just now. He himself cannot work; and his black neighbor, rich in pumpkin, is in no haste to help him. Sunk to the ears in pumpkin, imbibing saccharine juices, and much at his ease in the creation, he can listen to the less fortunate white man’s “demand,” and take his own time in supplying it. Higher wages, massa; higher, for your cane-crop cannot wait; still higher, till no conceivable opulence of cane-crop will cover such wages. In Demerara, as I read in the blue book of last year, the cane-crop, far and wide, stands rotting; the fortunate black gentlemen, strong in their pumpkins, having all struck till the “demand” rise a little. Sweet, blighted lilies, now getting up their heads again!

and then fled to northern industrial cities looking for work, where they were exploited further, dionysus Jun 2012 #1
Oh great, right wingers will use this as justification for saying slavery was better. Zalatix Jun 2012 #2
They have already been doing that for decades, if not hundreds of years Major Nikon Jun 2012 #7
Their argument, back in the 1840s and 50s, was that slaves were better off as slaves than coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #9
The same bunch that said "give me freedom or give me death"? Zalatix Jun 2012 #10
Modern version... Major Nikon Jun 2012 #11
Thanks for making the point. It was my immediate thought as soon as I saw it, too. Hideous. n/t Judi Lynn Jun 2012 #13
All because the Union wasn't willing to grant the slaves the rights to THEIR PROPERTY Scootaloo Jun 2012 #3
Slaves should have owned New York City. They built a lot of it. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #4
I guess the Chinese should have owned the railroads then. dkf Jun 2012 #8
maybe. why not? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #12
+1,000! Zalatix Jun 2012 #18
And the Irish should've owned all the houses? Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #45
that may have been true in 1865 hfojvt Jun 2012 #34
so what? slaves cleared built a lot of pre-colonial and colonial NY. they laid the foundations HiPointDem Jun 2012 #35
my house has a foundation hfojvt Jun 2012 #40
a city needs *labor* to be built. without slaves there would not have been enough *labor* HiPointDem Jun 2012 #41
But people built New York before then. And of course people have built most of it after that time.nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #46
people built ny before the pre-colonial period? slaves were in NY from its foundation & did most HiPointDem Jun 2012 #48
So did the Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the English, you name it. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #56
Not anywhere near the role that slavery played in building NYC, both through direct slave labor & HiPointDem Jun 2012 #58
a big chunk of the money that built it "after that time" came from financing the slave trade and HiPointDem Jun 2012 #49
Somehow, I think it would have been different had Lincoln lived. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #5
Absolutely. Andrew Johnson was one of the worst presidents bhikkhu Jun 2012 #6
Unfortunately, there wasn't enough will in the North LuvNewcastle Jun 2012 #14
And as the descendant of one of those northern soldiers I am not foolish enough to think that most jwirr Jun 2012 #28
Spam deleted by Violet_Crumble (MIR Team) Christopher44 Jun 2012 #15
I think I would prefer to die on my feet than live on my knees REP Jun 2012 #16
slaves macrolly Jun 2012 #17
Is this in English? GCP Jun 2012 #19
Say what? UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #20
wut? alphafemale Jun 2012 #22
Well, doing American soldiers really isn't great work. UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #23
Opinions vary... n/t PavePusher Jun 2012 #31
who could argue with those fine words? spanone Jun 2012 #36
lol deutsey Jun 2012 #53
"site struts 2jquery" EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2012 #37
Undoubtedly true, yet ... surrealAmerican Jun 2012 #21
I believe they were more capable at handling famine and food shortages than their former owners. YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #24
5 or 6 more generations? Seriously? Zalatix Jun 2012 #51
I also said if at all... YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #52
I didn't read the study, but saying lots of freed slaves died 1862-1870 is meaningless... Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #25
It's always a good idea to state the obvious. So few do, and are surprised by it when it's uttered. Igel Jun 2012 #32
Many of the blacks who owned frogmarch Jun 2012 #43
I think those who did that, then freed the relatives they had bought. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #44
On an episode of frogmarch Jun 2012 #47
Reconstruction failed, and we are still paying for that failure. bemildred Jun 2012 #26
So this author assumes there weren't deaths related to being a slave. And his assumption that jwirr Jun 2012 #27
The 40-acres-and-a-mule "promise" was limited in area and in duration. Igel Jun 2012 #29
Dufuskee. the Geechee Gullah culture. alphafemale Jun 2012 #42
+1 HiPointDem Jun 2012 #50
How do you think native Americans were defeated? Tsiyu Jun 2012 #54
KICK NT Phhhtttt Jun 2012 #30
that so-called English 'gentleman' Thomas Carlyle wanted us to starve as welll - malaise Jun 2012 #33
"He himself cannot work." Tsiyu Jun 2012 #55
I would not have judged the freed slaves poorly if they had taken their back pay by force. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #38
a more correct title: "Poor transition plan led to starvation and death for millions of black..." maggiesfarmer Jun 2012 #39
Millions of black slaves didn't die; this is a bullshit thesis. OP title is false. kwassa Jun 2012 #57
I think in addition that one can't minimize the role that actual murder played once reconstruction HiPointDem Jun 2012 #59
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