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kwassa

(23,340 posts)
Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:43 AM Sep 2016

"America's gun problem is not a race problem" [View all]

from conservative commentator David Frum, a surprising opinion.

The people who make up America count as Americans, and their problems count as America's problems. Their problems do not occur in isolation, but are manifestations of failures to which all Americans contributed together.

Those young men in Baton Rouge who are killing each other in such horrific numbers do not manufacture their own guns. They did not organize the gun trade that brings the guns to their town. They did not write the laws that prevent their town government from acting against guns. They carry guns -- and misuse guns -- thanks to a national system of gun regulation that makes guns easily accessible to those least likely to use guns responsibly.

The gun laws intended to put guns into the hands of "good guys" are the laws that also multiply guns in the hands of "bad guys" -- bad guys who might not have become such bad guys if the guns had not been available to their hands.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/opinion/frum-guns-race/

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People forget one of the main reasons for the second amendment flyingfysh Sep 2016 #1
Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with not wanting a standing army... linuxman Sep 2016 #2
Here is an explanation flyingfysh Sep 2016 #3
. linuxman Sep 2016 #5
It's ironic that this is presented by gunners as evidence of gun control as racist flamin lib Sep 2016 #9
Can you provide an example of a 'gunner' claiming gun control is not racist? friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #15
I thought not... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #55
Carl T Bogus? beevul Sep 2016 #66
What flying fish is saying is TRUE!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2016 #4
This is an intellectually dishonest viewpoint. NutmegYankee Sep 2016 #6
Southern states did put a lot of thought into ensuring their militias were available jmg257 Sep 2016 #7
It seems obvious moondust Sep 2016 #10
That argument is evidence-free Colonism: friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #16
Nice try. moondust Sep 2016 #23
I'm supposed to prove a negative? Nonsense: "Argument from ignorance" friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #25
You're wasting your time moondust Sep 2016 #31
"You're wasting your time" I agree. You present no evidence other than 'it stands to reason' friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #32
Humans practiced slavery sarisataka Sep 2016 #24
You lie! Everyone knows Pharaoh kept the Israelites in line with AR15s he got from the NRA friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #26
And no doubt moondust Sep 2016 #27
The same would be true for a slave of any era sarisataka Sep 2016 #33
Except that... moondust Sep 2016 #36
Humanity has had projectile weapons for millennia. NutmegYankee Sep 2016 #43
So the "slave-loving" states like Pennsylvania went and added their own versions.. why? X_Digger Sep 2016 #28
So not a gun problem, not a race problem - it is a bad guy problem. Makes sense. jmg257 Sep 2016 #8
Guns make people bad. ileus Sep 2016 #11
Guns kill people all the time. kwassa Sep 2016 #12
Guns kill people in the same way that cars drive drunk friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #17
Guns are highly lethal kwassa Sep 2016 #18
"Cars are designed to transport." And yet people still get killed with (not by) them every day. friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #20
So? That is an accidental byproduct, not their stated purpose. kwassa Sep 2016 #39
My firearms are designed to save lives... ileus Sep 2016 #37
No, they are designed to kill, and nothing else. kwassa Sep 2016 #38
I bouth mine under the wrong pretense then ileus Sep 2016 #50
People buy guns under the wrong pretense all the time. Orrex Sep 2016 #57
Firearms are designed to send a projectile out of the barrel at a high rate of speed with Waldorf Sep 2016 #42
So, 1 in 10,000 are not 'used legally'? Probably somewhere around the number of cars ... brett_jv Sep 2016 #45
Guns are designed to kill. That is their purpose kwassa Sep 2016 #62
oh, stop being so difficult... just kidding. a lot of people here will go to any length to excuse TheFrenchRazor Sep 2016 #41
There are no gun factories on the South and West Sides of Chicago alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #13
Your theory of collective guilt differs from Trump's only in the choice of which collective to blame friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #14
You should feel guilty. kwassa Sep 2016 #19
Bullshit. Collective guilt as a theory is poisonous nonsense no matter who promulgates it friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #22
It is more about collective responsibility. If you feel guilt about not fulfilling that ... kwassa Sep 2016 #40
Does this apply to *any* identifiable group with members that have done wrong, or... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #54
Any. kwassa Sep 2016 #60
Are cannabis users responsible for cartel violence? If not, why not? friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #58
They do bear some responsibility. kwassa Sep 2016 #61
You're consistent, I'll grant you that. Would that some others here were... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #64
What problem, what is he responsible for? Marengo Sep 2016 #30
Not supporting gun control, making illicit guns readily available. kwassa Sep 2016 #63
The only people responsible for the bad choices other people make with guns... beevul Sep 2016 #67
Not true. If people consistently make bad choices with guns ... kwassa Sep 2016 #68
Yes, true. I am responsible, as an individual, for no actions other than my own. beevul Sep 2016 #69
How exactly sarisataka Sep 2016 #21
You aren't supposed to ask awkward questions like that friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #29
I am full of strange and radical ideas sarisataka Sep 2016 #34
"I don't believe in group stereotypes" That's the problem: Group stereotypes are quite acceptable... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #35
Have you ever considered the indisputable truth ... brett_jv Sep 2016 #46
"If you didn't have 'the right to a gun' ... and never had...". NOW you tell 'em... jmg257 Sep 2016 #48
I'll thank you to to keep *your* words out of *my* mouth... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #52
I've been volunteering for free on the illicit pipeline that feeds guns to gangs Travis_0004 Sep 2016 #51
Perhaps we should get rid of the gangs? No gangs, no guns. n/t Waldorf Sep 2016 #44
"white legal gun owners profit off the illicit pipeline" jack_krass Sep 2016 #47
I believe our interlocutor found our questions too awkward to answer... friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #53
I'm starting to feel like I need to take a knee. ileus Sep 2016 #49
When a black guy shoots someone, he's a thug and represents ALL black people Rocknrule Sep 2016 #56
Mental illness is thinking you can solve problems with guns nolabels Sep 2016 #59
Point out someone who espouses your first two examples and I'll argue with them myself friendly_iconoclast Sep 2016 #65
Collective guilt leads to stereotyping and mass prejudice. Basic stuff. Eleanors38 Sep 2016 #70
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