General Discussion

philosslayer

(3,076 posts) Thu Aug 18, 2016, 12:53 PM Aug 2016

Princeton releases guidance to eliminate gender-specific language [View all]

A sample:

Repeat the noun.

Example: The student must submit the course registration papers by July 1. Her guidance
counselor will send confirmation by mail.

Revised: The student must submit the course registration papers by July 1. The student's
guidance counsellor will send confirmation by mail.

The complete guideline:
https://www.princeton.edu/hr/progserv/communications/inclusivelanguage.pdf

Good step by Princeton. Hopefully other Universities (and government entities) will begin to adopt these sorts of policies.

120 replies

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Princeton releases guidance to eliminate gender-specific language [View all] philosslayer Aug 2016 OP

Ah yes, the sheer joy of Gibbons-level prose whatthehey Aug 2016 #1

IMHO, they should just get over language snobbery and use "they," "them," and "their" JustinL Aug 2016 #4

Because it's confusing and doesn't make any sense alarimer Aug 2016 #41

no more confusing than using "deer" as both a singular and a plural JustinL Aug 2016 #56

Then there is "thou." Eleanors38 Aug 2016 #116

I totally agree. I've started adopting this, and it's not a big deal. Squinch Aug 2016 #53

the irony is that "they" has a much longer history as a generic pronoun than "he" JustinL Aug 2016 #60

All this etymology is really interesting. I love word origins. Relevant to this conversation, Squinch Aug 2016 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author TransitJohn Aug 2016 #97

Let's just follow the course of language evolution to its endpoint: Eliminate all and only use 'IT.' TheBlackAdder Aug 2016 #49

The solution cagefreesoylentgreen Aug 2016 #67

Bingo. If I recall correctly, there was no gender in the Native American languages either. TheBlackAdder Aug 2016 #68

Don't tell the guys in this thread! They'll feel the need to laugh and make fun of Native Americans Squinch Aug 2016 #105

The default to "he" in proper grammer never made sense anyway. It could easily be Squinch Aug 2016 #2

The previous version had s/he and his/her oberliner Aug 2016 #20

It's pretty cumbersome. People like me who were drilled in proper grammar will have Squinch Aug 2016 #23

It's not really all that logical oberliner Aug 2016 #27

When using 'they' there is no need to get rid of the singular gender pronouns where the gender Squinch Aug 2016 #30

Hillary, in my example, is a genderqueer individual who prefers the pronoun "they" oberliner Aug 2016 #31

So again, by going extreme you are discounting the validity of the idea that the other half Squinch Aug 2016 #33

It is anything but frivilous, and it is certainly not extreme oberliner Aug 2016 #35

Hillary, WHO is a nice person. ananda Aug 2016 #44

That's not a sentence oberliner Aug 2016 #50

It isn't uncommon. Igel Aug 2016 #84

This is helpful, but I do not like the use of "they" for one person. femmocrat Aug 2016 #3

yet no one has a problem with using "deer" as a plural noun, or "read" as a past-tense verb JustinL Aug 2016 #11

Assuming you are using "they" as a singular pronoun, would you assign it a singular verb as well? oberliner Aug 2016 #29

This is very, very hard for you, isn't it? Squinch Aug 2016 #34

It is oberliner Aug 2016 #37

Using language in a way that does not exclude half the population or does not define Squinch Aug 2016 #39

Are you familiar with people who do not identify as male or female? oberliner Aug 2016 #42

And when they come up with language that they prefer to be used with respect to them, Squinch Aug 2016 #55

That's what I am trying to discuss oberliner Aug 2016 #63

That's not for you to figure out. If there are people who wish to be referred to Squinch Aug 2016 #64

It is if I am a student or employee of Princeton University oberliner Aug 2016 #70

We use "are" for the singular of "you" so I don't see the problem of adding a pronoun to that usage. Squinch Aug 2016 #71

That makes sense oberliner Aug 2016 #73

And thanks to you for sharing yours. Squinch Aug 2016 #74

Do you think English 101 is going this route? yeoman6987 Aug 2016 #47

English 101 changes over time. I hardly ever call you "thee" these days. And you never call me Squinch Aug 2016 #52

True. Lol. yeoman6987 Aug 2016 #54

+1 Blue_Tires Aug 2016 #22

Using "they" as third-person gender nonspecific singular dates back to Shakespeare, IIRC. backscatter712 Aug 2016 #101

lol - The "Revised" has a spelling error. nt DURHAM D Aug 2016 #5

I won't take credit for that philosslayer Aug 2016 #7

I assumed that was not your mistake. nt DURHAM D Aug 2016 #9

I didn't realize how triggering "layman" and "mankind" were. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #6

"Son" is male-preferential. Please revise. Orrex Aug 2016 #10

Fixed, and privilege thoroughly checked. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #14

Just wait till they hear that they're all human. Lancero Aug 2016 #94

Or that they all have spooky skeletons inside them. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #95

Academia strikes again with solutions to problems that didn't exist. romanic Aug 2016 #8

Exactly SickOfTheOnePct Aug 2016 #26

They say that "mankind" should be replaced by "humanity". Nye Bevan Aug 2016 #12

And of course man meant human for centuries before it meant adult male specifically whatthehey Aug 2016 #17

Do you really not see a difference? Squinch Aug 2016 #24

The two words are very distantly related. Xithras Aug 2016 #72

Human doesn't work well The2ndWheel Aug 2016 #13

Maybe "human" can be replaced by "biped". WillowTree Aug 2016 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author Monk06 Aug 2016 #75

Please continue GulfCoast66 Aug 2016 #15

"Guidance counselor" is a repulsively oppressive sexist term. Throd Aug 2016 #18

Have they considered changing the school name from PRINCEton? hughee99 Aug 2016 #19

Nearly impossible to write coherent narrative comments about a student this way oberliner Aug 2016 #21

In other words - "May our new grammatical chains rest lightly upon us...". nt jonno99 Aug 2016 #43

It just needs to be sorted out oberliner Aug 2016 #46

I appreciate your optimism! jonno99 Aug 2016 #51

Why does it need to be sorted out? metalbot Aug 2016 #58

Why is Princeton releasing these guidelines at all? oberliner Aug 2016 #62

For language to have a meaning that is conveyed (the purpose of language), it has to have some.. X_Digger Aug 2016 #82

Give that kid a special test, get him outta here. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #86

It has to have some meaning metalbot Aug 2016 #107

Show respect, sure. Igel Aug 2016 #87

There should just be a gender neutral personal pronoun oberliner Aug 2016 #102

People throughout this thread are acting as if the attempt to change male-only pronouns Squinch Aug 2016 #25

If womankind had simply meant human for centuries before changing to gender specific, sure whatthehey Aug 2016 #28

And yet it does not really include me. Any more than "womankind" would include you. Squinch Aug 2016 #32

That however is your choice. Mankind's meaning and etymology covers all humanity, and NOT whatthehey Aug 2016 #38

If the word were "womankind," even if in use for a long time, and even if you were told that Squinch Aug 2016 #40

Yes. If the original universal word were "woman" whatthehey Aug 2016 #89

No. Actually it's nothing like that. And I understand this makes you angry. However, as I said Squinch Aug 2016 #103

And again you are wrong whatthehey Aug 2016 #110

I understand. You fear the extremes, and that makes this is very, very hard for you. Squinch Aug 2016 #111

Obviously you don't whatthehey Aug 2016 #112

Your determination that disagreement with your opinion is "completely wrong" is noted. But really, Squinch Aug 2016 #113

No, they don't. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #45

Etymology is very nice. However, if the word were "womankind" and you were told that it means Squinch Aug 2016 #48

Irrelevant. You can suggest any hypothetical, but what matters is what actually exists. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #57

Not really. Today, it is reflective of the current meanings Squinch Aug 2016 #59

And yet man is still used a gender-neutral term. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #65

Yes. This very non-gender-neutral word's use as a catch-all for both genders, Squinch Aug 2016 #66

You'll of course, provide with objective evidence supporting your allegation, yes? LanternWaste Aug 2016 #114

So mandible should be changed to what? Personible? Marr Aug 2016 #78

You go ahead and do that. Because I'm sure you really think that's what this is about. Squinch Aug 2016 #79

Literalism and implicit denial of the evolution of language is so fundy. LanternWaste Aug 2016 #115

Illiterate outrage is so embarrassing. /nt Marr Aug 2016 #117

I've never felt that "mankind" or "man" or "he" included me. athena Aug 2016 #91

How about "human"? (nt) Nye Bevan Aug 2016 #96

"Human" includes me. "Man" does not. athena Aug 2016 #108

It's a very interesting psychological effect when you are used to language excluding Squinch Aug 2016 #106

They also revised the word counselor to counsellor. grossproffit Aug 2016 #36

LOL. LOLOL. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.... Shandris Aug 2016 #69

My favorite gender neutral pronoun is "comrade"...mfm........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2016 #76

This is the kind of peurile nonsense that has turned the left into a joke in this country. Marr Aug 2016 #77

Do you think left in this country is a joke? I think the only ones who think the left is a joke Squinch Aug 2016 #83

I think the left *is* a joke to much of this country, yes. Marr Aug 2016 #88

Ah, the elusive "good old days." Well. Good luck with your efforts to get right-wing people to Squinch Aug 2016 #104

God save us from college administrators. Vattel Aug 2016 #80

I personally believe this is.... Fla_Democrat Aug 2016 #81

Minitrue approves this post. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Nye Bevan Aug 2016 #98

Princeton is of course free to set guidelines for its own language usage Orrex Aug 2016 #90

we already have such a pronoun - "they" JustinL Aug 2016 #92

Yes, I know that. Everybody here knows that. Orrex Aug 2016 #93

Some are advocating "ze" and "zir". (nt) Nye Bevan Aug 2016 #100

And BTW what is the big problem with the word "actress"? Nye Bevan Aug 2016 #99

Newspeak has arrived. Taitertots Aug 2016 #109

FFS, just use Singular "They". Odin2005 Aug 2016 #118

Revised again: MineralMan Aug 2016 #119

Or LWolf Aug 2016 #120