Reply #76

In the discussion thread: A question about RFK [View all]

Thu May 24, 2012, 10:18 PM

76. Everything you write is true. However, RFK's victory in

the hard-fought California primary gave RFK crucial momentum and would, I believe, have led to a 'bandwagon effect' whereby uncommitted delegates flocked to the RFK standard, leaving McCarthy and HHH in the dust.

We'll never know for sure and therein lies the rub.

As to RFK's reputation for ruthlessness, I think the arc of the 60s had pretty much thoroughly transformed him. I remmeber reading an anecdote of his New York Senatorial Campaign when RFK and some aides were touring one of the really nasty housing projects (Bedford Stuyvesant, maybe?). RFK saw a really dilapidated building and wanted to go in and meet voters but his aides were highly resistant. RFK over-ruled them and went into the building anyway.

That little anecdote captured my heart because it seemed to encapsulate within it the seeds of a truly evolving human being. Call me a sucker if you must. I plead mea culpa.

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88 replies	Author	Time	Post
A question about RFK [View all]	lovemydog	May 2012	OP
That is an excellent hypothetical.	hifiguy	May 2012	#1
Though in the Muskie hypothetical, that would put two "Northeasterners" on the ticket	villager	May 2012	#2
'Let's put the jam on the lower shelf	lovemydog	May 2012	#81
It's a good mantra. Sadly, the current owners/sponsors of the Democratic Party	villager	May 2012	#82
Didn't Muskie go kinda crazy at one point ...on a train?	zzaapp	May 2012	#11
That was in 1972 when he was running for Prez.	hifiguy	May 2012	#13
Thanks for clearing that up.	zzaapp	May 2012	#18
no.	HiPointDem	May 2012	#15
When Muskie was the demoratic front runner in 1972	lovemydog	May 2012	#17
UNFAIR	zzaapp	May 2012	#21
yes, another example of the inanity	lovemydog	May 2012	#27
Unfortunately, Muskie was also an alcoholic.	avebury	May 2012	#62
Was Jerry Brown in office then?	zzaapp	May 2012	#3
No but his father Pat Brown would have been a good choice. See below.	yellowcanine	May 2012	#7
Pat Brown would have been an excellent choice	goclark	May 2012	#25
Pat Brown had just lost to Raygun at that point	RFKHumphreyObama	May 2012	#79
Jerry was first elected Gov of Cali in '74 IIRC.	hifiguy	May 2012	#8
Thanks, wasn't sure of the dates.	zzaapp	May 2012	#9
He Was All Of Thirty	DemocratSinceBirth	May 2012	#84
I've got it !!! Hunter Thompson.	zzaapp	May 2012	#4
Henry B. Gonzales	broiles	May 2012	#5
that would have been a great choice. gonzalez's work was the first time i got a clue about	HiPointDem	May 2012	#16
'González was referred to as a "communist" in 1986	lovemydog	May 2012	#38
Pat Brown might have been an inspired choice.	yellowcanine	May 2012	#6
Good thoughts, but note that Brown had lost the governship to St. Ronnie in '66	villager	May 2012	#12
Yes that would have been one thing against having Brown as VP. But beyond California, Brown	yellowcanine	May 2012	#37
Brown lost to Ronnie Reagan by a million votes in 1966--so doubtful.	WI_DEM	May 2012	#28
How about Jesse Jackson...too young?	zzaapp	May 2012	#10
Probably too young	lovemydog	May 2012	#19
I need to start checking dates before posting. lol	zzaapp	May 2012	#20
Too young, and too soon--RFK would not have selected a black or female VP	WI_DEM	May 2012	#29
I Presume He Wanted To Win	DemocratSinceBirth	May 2012	#85
I first thought southerner	Capt. Obvious	May 2012	#14
But RFK was strongly in favor of civil rights	lovemydog	May 2012	#22
Oh, I'm sure they hated each other	Capt. Obvious	May 2012	#24
USAF General Curtis "Bomb 'em Back To the Stone Age" LeMay.	hifiguy	May 2012	#30
yeah, LeMay	lovemydog	May 2012	#39
I think you mean Curtis LeMay.	craigmatic	May 2012	#36
Come on, RFK would never have selected George Wallace	WI_DEM	May 2012	#26
Are you sure that he didn't mean George Wallace, the black comedian?	zzaapp	May 2012	#31
well then that is possible. But I think Bill Cosby would have been more universally	WI_DEM	May 2012	#33
George Carlin?	zzaapp	May 2012	#35
If it would get him the White House	Capt. Obvious	May 2012	#34
I doubt a RFK/Wallace ticket would even win	WI_DEM	May 2012	#45
No effin way. The Southern Strategy didn't kick in until 1972. It was a response to Wallace in	yellowcanine	May 2012	#44
This thread is all about hypotheticals - I gave mine	Capt. Obvious	May 2012	#53
Even for a hypothetical it is a bridge too far. The old South hated RFK. They would have swung to	yellowcanine	May 2012	#61
Not Shriver (family), Not McCarthy (Catholic) not Clark (LBJ's Attorney General)	WI_DEM	May 2012	#23
RFK wouldn't have won the nod in '68 because LBJ wouldn't have allowed it.	craigmatic	May 2012	#32
Actually Johnson did a lot to try and help HHH win	WI_DEM	May 2012	#41
You're right overtly LBJ did alot for HHH but behind the scenes he believed HHH was disloyal.	craigmatic	May 2012	#51
Great points	lovemydog	May 2012	#49
You had to have brass balls to try to blackmail LBJ.	hifiguy	May 2012	#60
Whatever bad traits he had, LBJ was a real Democrat and would NOT have backed NIXON	UTUSN	May 2012	#54
I like LBJ too but politicians have been known to buck party loyalty in private.	craigmatic	May 2012	#57
It's not a matter of "liking LBJ" but somebody of his party accomplishment would be like FDR turning	UTUSN	May 2012	#74
Are you saying that, even after he won the California Democratic Primary and	coalition_unwilling	May 2012	#66
I'm saying exactly that.	craigmatic	May 2012	#75
Everything you write is true. However, RFK's victory in	coalition_unwilling	May 2012	#76
His Ruthlessness Is What Made Him Appealing	DemocratSinceBirth	May 2012	#86
I beg to disagree. His ruthlessness that had morphed into	coalition_unwilling	May 2012	#87
But His Affinity For The Underdog And Being Ruthless Or Tough	DemocratSinceBirth	May 2012	#88
McGovern would have balanced the ticket nicely . . .	markpkessinger	May 2012	#40
McGovern was a conservative?????	WI_DEM	May 2012	#42
Yes, as a matter of fact . . .	markpkessinger	May 2012	#43
And McGovern was a WWII vet. Not that it helped him in 1972.	yellowcanine	May 2012	#47
Indeed...	markpkessinger	May 2012	#50
Sure doesn't sound like a moderate/conservative democrat....	WI_DEM	May 2012	#55
What you're not getting ...	markpkessinger	May 2012	#58
You bet. There were Republicans like Ed Brooke, Jacob Javits,	hifiguy	May 2012	#67
+1 n/t	markpkessinger	May 2012	#73
One can argue pretty convincingly that, pre-1972, Nelson Rockefeller was to the left of Carter,	coalition_unwilling	May 2012	#68
One can certainly make that argument, and credibly so ...	markpkessinger	May 2012	#72
Shows how far to the right we've slid, n'est ce pas?	markpkessinger	May 2012	#46
Stuart Symington. Senator from MO.	trackfan	May 2012	#48
That is a first rate surmise.	hifiguy	May 2012	#63
Excellent choice. I too had forgotten Symington, whose reputation	coalition_unwilling	May 2012	#69
John Connally would have been an interesting choice but probably too much of a hawk	yellowcanine	May 2012	#52
CONNALY had already declared independence from LBJ & by the time of the JFK trip to Dallas	UTUSN	May 2012	#59
The Texans were all fighting each other but they also all would make nice if it meant	yellowcanine	May 2012	#64
Wait a minute, the topic is WHO RFK would have picked.	UTUSN	May 2012	#71
RFK still needed LBJ to at least be somewhat neutral. As for Connoly, he was a political chameleon	yellowcanine	May 2012	#77
Bwa-ha-ha. Reminded me of an old joke about Connally's latter-day	coalition_unwilling	May 2012	#70
If it had been a brokered convention, it probably would have been HHH.	yellowcanine	May 2012	#56
My last word is that the premise of the OP is wrong. It would have been HHH/RFK had RFK	yellowcanine	May 2012	#65
Terry Sanford or George Smathers	RFKHumphreyObama	May 2012	#78
That having been said	RFKHumphreyObama	May 2012	#80
I'd have been thrilled with a McCarthy/RFK ticket. But, we got Humpty.	Tierra_y_Libertad	May 2012	#83

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